Zelda (SSB4): Difference between revisions

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I think up smash is much more agreeable than up tilt as a nerf from Brawl. Up tilt got reworked into a useful combo move, up smash only a got a little stronger which didn't nearly compensate for all the nerfs
(I think up smash is much more agreeable than up tilt as a nerf from Brawl. Up tilt got reworked into a useful combo move, up smash only a got a little stronger which didn't nearly compensate for all the nerfs)
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Lastly, she does not have a particularly effective out of shield game. While Farore's Wind is a very strong out of shield option, it is a frame 8 option and it has limited range. In addition to this, the first hit of the move can be [[Directional influence|DI]]ed, which Zelda has to predict and follow and if she misses the second hit, she is left wide open for a large punish. As for her other options, her up smash is frame 9 and has abysmal range, making it useless out of shield, her shield grab is frame 10 and while it does have decent range, its range is not incredible either, taking its startup lag into account. Her aerials are difficult or even impossible to land in some cases (especially against shorter characters) and while down tilt and down smash are solid, they are frame 12 options. When combined with her below average traction. this makes it very difficult or even impossible for her to punish moves which are either spaced well or even moves which are fairly negative on shield, which overall makes her struggle with shield pressure, although her down tilt and down smash are solid [[power shield]] punishes.
Lastly, she does not have a particularly effective out of shield game. While Farore's Wind is a very strong out of shield option, it is a frame 8 option and it has limited range. In addition to this, the first hit of the move can be [[Directional influence|DI]]ed, which Zelda has to predict and follow and if she misses the second hit, she is left wide open for a large punish. As for her other options, her up smash is frame 9 and has abysmal range, making it useless out of shield, her shield grab is frame 10 and while it does have decent range, its range is not incredible either, taking its startup lag into account. Her aerials are difficult or even impossible to land in some cases (especially against shorter characters) and while down tilt and down smash are solid, they are frame 12 options. When combined with her below average traction. this makes it very difficult or even impossible for her to punish moves which are either spaced well or even moves which are fairly negative on shield, which overall makes her struggle with shield pressure, although her down tilt and down smash are solid [[power shield]] punishes.


As a result, Zelda's strong punish game is not enough to make up for her poor mobility, endurence, neutral game, disadvantage state, approach potential and inconsistent moveset, resulting in Zelda struggling against most of the cast, much like she did in the previous two games. Ultimately, this meant that Zelda retained extremely minimal representation in competitive play much like the previous two games and in turn, extremely sparse results. However, Zelda has nevertheless managed to find a few instances of success, from players such as {{Sm|ven}}, {{Sm|Fairess}}, {{Sm|Purple Guy}}, {{Sm|Onpu}}, and {{Sm|Zolda}}.
As a result, Zelda's strong punish game is not enough to make up for her poor mobility, endurance, neutral game, disadvantage state, approach potential and inconsistent moveset, resulting in Zelda struggling against most of the cast, much like she did in the previous two games. Ultimately, this meant that Zelda retained extremely minimal representation in competitive play much like the previous two games and in turn, extremely sparse results. However, Zelda has nevertheless managed to find a few instances of success, from players such as {{Sm|ven}}, {{Sm|Fairess}}, {{Sm|Purple Guy}}, {{Sm|Onpu}}, and {{Sm|Zolda}}.


==Attributes==
==Attributes==
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As a result of the removal of [[hitstun canceling]], Zelda's combo game has also noticeably improved: neutral attack's various hitbox and knockback adjustments make it a better set-up option at low percentages, up tilt's lower damage output and increased speed make it a reliable combo option, neutral aerial's hitbox adjustments make it better at damage racking, sweetspotted down aerial can now be used as a set-up option on grounded opponents, and down throw's increased knockback and altered angle make it a useful KO set-up into up aerial and back aerial at high percentages.
As a result of the removal of [[hitstun canceling]], Zelda's combo game has also noticeably improved: neutral attack's various hitbox and knockback adjustments make it a better set-up option at low percentages, up tilt's lower damage output and increased speed make it a reliable combo option, neutral aerial's hitbox adjustments make it better at damage racking, sweetspotted down aerial can now be used as a set-up option on grounded opponents, and down throw's increased knockback and altered angle make it a useful KO set-up into up aerial and back aerial at high percentages.


However, Zelda also received noticeable nerfs. The most notable is the removal of her ability to [[Transform]] into Sheik, which is further compounded by the latter having been significantly buffed in the transition from ''Brawl'' to ''SSB4''. Outside of this, most of Zelda's direct nerfs have been applied to her damage output and frame data: up and down smash had slightly shorter ranges with the former smash having less utility, being laggier and less reliable while the latter has slightly more startup and has a weaker initial hit. Sweetspotted Lightning Kicks have lower base knockback and the Lightning Kicks themselves are significantly laggier having more ending lag preventing them from being performed twice in a short hop or auto-canceling in a short hop greatly hindering their spacing potential. Up tilt deals much less damage and has lower knockback greatly hindering its KO potential, and Din's Fire is less maneuverable and more inconsistent due to having a sourspot in the outer area of the explosion, making it worse as a zoning tool. While [[rage]] can improve her already strong KO power, her low weight prevents her from consistently building up a high amount of rage and it worsens her already poor endurance. While her combo game is stronger, she is also easier to combo not only due to the aforementioned removal of hitstun canceling but also because of her faster fall speed/gravity.
However, Zelda also received noticeable nerfs. The most notable is the removal of her ability to [[Transform]] into Sheik, which is further compounded by the latter having been significantly buffed in the transition from ''Brawl'' to ''SSB4''. Outside of this, most of Zelda's direct nerfs have been applied to her damage output and frame data: up and down smash had slightly shorter ranges with the former smash having less utility, being laggier and less reliable while the latter has slightly more startup and has a weaker initial hit. Sweetspotted Lightning Kicks have lower base knockback and the Lightning Kicks themselves are significantly laggier having more ending lag preventing them from being performed twice in a short hop or auto-canceling in a short hop greatly hindering their spacing potential. Up smash is much slower and has severely reduced range, and Din's Fire is less maneuverable and more inconsistent due to having a sourspot in the outer area of the explosion, making it worse as a zoning tool. While [[rage]] can improve her already strong KO power, her low weight prevents her from consistently building up a high amount of rage and it worsens her already poor endurance. While her combo game is stronger, she is also easier to combo not only due to the aforementioned removal of hitstun canceling but also because of her faster fall speed/gravity.


Overall, Zelda's much better combo game supplements her stronger [[out of shield]] game. However, she is still burdened with a poor approach and neutral game, owing to the buffs to her mobility being marginal at best (especially since many other characters also had their mobility improved to varying degrees), while she also received significant nerfs to some of her key moves in the previous game. While she overall greatly benefits from the changes to ''Smash 4''{{'}}s mechanics, they were not enough to offset her weaknesses. As a result, she is still considered to be one of the worst characters in the game with her tournament results remaining poor for the most part.
Overall, Zelda's much better combo game supplements her stronger [[out of shield]] game. However, she is still burdened with a poor approach and neutral game, owing to the buffs to her mobility being marginal at best (especially since many other characters also had their mobility improved to varying degrees), while she also received significant nerfs to some of her key moves in the previous game. While she overall greatly benefits from the changes to ''Smash 4''{{'}}s mechanics, they were not enough to offset her weaknesses. As a result, she is still considered to be one of the worst characters in the game with her tournament results remaining poor for the most part.
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**{{buff|The loop hits have larger hitboxes compared to the previous hand hitboxes (3u → 4.7u).}}
**{{buff|The loop hits have larger hitboxes compared to the previous hand hitboxes (3u → 4.7u).}}
**{{buff|The loop hits now have a consistent auto-link angle (150° (hands)/270° (head)/90° (body) → 366° (all)) and they have consistent set knockback (75 (hands)/50 (head)/120 (body) → 75) and knockback scaling (100 (hands)/90 (head/body) → 100), making them connect more reliably.}}
**{{buff|The loop hits now have a consistent auto-link angle (150° (hands)/270° (head)/90° (body) → 366° (all)) and they have consistent set knockback (75 (hands)/50 (head)/120 (body) → 75) and knockback scaling (100 (hands)/90 (head/body) → 100), making them connect more reliably.}}
**{{buff|The final hit now has a magic effect, instead of an electric effect.}}
**{{buff|The final hit now has a magic effect, instead of an electric effect. This decreases the move's hitlag and allows it to hit Olimar's yellow Pikmin}}
**{{nerf|Neutral aerial has more ending lag (FAF 50 → 51) and a longer animation (49 frames → 57).}}
**{{nerf|Neutral aerial has more ending lag (FAF 50 → 51) and a longer animation (49 frames → 57).}}
**{{nerf|Neutral aerial has more landing lag (12 frames → 19).}}
**{{nerf|Neutral aerial has more landing lag (12 frames → 19).}}
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***{{nerf|However, these animations are also longer (49 frames → 62), increasing the amount of time Zelda cannot grab ledges after performing a Lightning Kick.}}
***{{nerf|However, these animations are also longer (49 frames → 62), increasing the amount of time Zelda cannot grab ledges after performing a Lightning Kick.}}
**{{buff|The sweetspots have a slightly larger hitbox (1.7u → 1.9u), making them slightly easier to land.}}
**{{buff|The sweetspots have a slightly larger hitbox (1.7u → 1.9u), making them slightly easier to land.}}
**{{buff|The sweetspots now have a magic effect, instead of an electric effect, reducing their previously rather extreme hitlag.}}
**{{buff|The sweetspots now have a magic effect, instead of an electric effect, reducing their previously rather extreme hitlag. This also allows them to hit Olimar's yellow Pikmin.}}
**{{buff|The changes to shields significantly improve Lightning Kicks' safety and effectiveness on shield, especially the sweetspots, which are no longer burdened against shielding opponents by their extreme hitlag.}}
**{{buff|The changes to shields significantly improve Lightning Kicks' safety and effectiveness on shield, especially the sweetspots, which are no longer burdened against shielding opponents by their extreme hitlag.}}
**{{buff|The introduction of [[frame canceling]] benefits Lightning Kicks due to their sweetspots' extremely high hitlag, which can give them much less landing lag when they connect if timed and spaced properly.}}
**{{buff|The introduction of [[frame canceling]] benefits Lightning Kicks due to their sweetspots' extremely high hitlag, which can give them much less landing lag when they connect if timed and spaced properly.}}
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**{{buff|Up aerial has less landing lag (22 frames → 19).}}
**{{buff|Up aerial has less landing lag (22 frames → 19).}}
**{{nerf|Up aerial has lower knockback scaling (110 → 84), noticeably hindering its KO potential despite its increased damage.}}
**{{nerf|Up aerial has lower knockback scaling (110 → 84), noticeably hindering its KO potential despite its increased damage.}}
**{{nerf|Up aerial has a slightly smaller hitbox (8.199994u → 8u).}}
**{{change|Up aerial's hitbox is positioned slightly more inward (z offset 1.7u → 0.5u).}}
**{{nerf|Up aerial has a slightly smaller hitbox (8.199984u → 8u).}}
*[[Down aerial]]:
*[[Down aerial]]:
**{{buff|Down aerial now has an initial auto-cancel window during its first three frames.}}
**{{buff|Down aerial now has an initial auto-cancel window during its first three frames.}}
**{{buff|The sweetspot can now hit grounded opponents, giving the move less startup lag with a longer duration against grounded opponents (frames 15-24 → 14 (clean)/15-24 (late)).}}
**{{buff|The clean hit can now hit grounded opponents, giving the move less startup lag with a longer duration against grounded opponents (frames 15-24 → 14 (clean)/15-24 (late)).}}
**{{buff|The sweetspot has a larger hitbox (2.5u → 4u).}}
**{{buff|The clean hit has a larger hitbox (2.5u → 4u).}}
**{{buff|The sweetspot now has a magic effect, instead of an electric effect.}}
**{{buff|The clean hit now has a magic effect, instead of an electric effect.}}
**{{buff|Down aerial has less landing lag (21 frames → 18).}}
**{{buff|Down aerial has less landing lag (21 frames → 18).}}
***{{buff|When combined with the introduction of [[frame canceling]], this noticeably improves down aerial's safety and followup potential, especially with the sweetspot.}}
***{{buff|When combined with the introduction of [[frame canceling]], this noticeably improves down aerial's safety and followup potential, especially with the clean hit.}}
**{{nerf|The sweetspot deals less knockback (50 (base), 90 (scaling) → 30/65). This hinders its edge-guarding potential and KO potential (although this is partially compensated with the removal of [[meteor cancel]]ing) and while it does improves its combo potential on stage, this is overall negated by the introduction of [[tech]]ing against grounded meteor smashes.}}
**{{nerf|The clean hit deals less knockback (50 (base), 90 (scaling) → 30/65). This hinders its edge-guarding potential and KO potential (although this is partially compensated with the removal of [[meteor cancel]]ing) and while it does improves its combo potential on stage, this is overall negated by the introduction of [[tech]]ing against grounded meteor smashes.}}


===Throws/other attacks===
===Throws/other attacks===
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***{{buff|However when combined with the changes to hitstun canceling and DI, these changes improve its combo potential.}}
***{{buff|However when combined with the changes to hitstun canceling and DI, these changes improve its combo potential.}}
*[[Down throw]]:
*[[Down throw]]:
**{{change|Down throw's visual effects have changed. Zelda now casts [[Flame|fiery]] magic, instead of electrical magic.}}
**{{change|Down throw's attack effect has changed from electric to magic. This reduces the move's hitlag.}}
**{{nerf|The loop hits deal less damage (2% → 1%), reducing the throw's total damage output (10% → 6%).}}
**{{nerf|The loop hits deal less damage (2% → 1%), reducing the throw's total damage output (10% → 6%).}}
**{{nerf|Down throw deals more knockback (80 (base), 42 (scaling) → 85/55), hindering its followup potential while also still being far too weak to KO.}}
**{{nerf|Down throw deals more knockback (80 (base), 42 (scaling) → 85/55), hindering its followup potential while also still being far too weak to KO.}}
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===Special moves===
===Special moves===
*[[Nayru's Love]]:
*[[Nayru's Love]]:
**{{nerf|Due to consisting of four hits instead of six, Nayru's Love deals 4% less damage (15% → 11%).}}
**{{buff|Nayru's Love has increased intangibility frames (frames 5-12 → 5-15), now coinciding with the hitboxes for 3 frames and improving the move's ability to beat out other moves.}}
**{{buff|Nayru's Love's loop hits' angles have been altered (10° → 160°). When coupled with the weakening of SDI, this makes it significantly more difficult to escape from.}}
**{{change|All hitboxes are positioned slightly higher (y offset 6 → 8).}}
**{{buff|Nayru's Love has increased intangibility frames (frames 5-12 → 5-15).}}
**{{change|The looping hits use 2 medium-sized extended hitboxes (6u/4u) instead of 5 smaller ones (5u/4.8u/4.8u/3.4u/3.4u). They are also positioned closer to Zelda (z offset -13.5/-4/0/4/13.5 → -4 to 4, -10 to 10), overall reducing their horizontal range but improving their vertical range.}}
**{{buff|The final hit can now hit aerial opponents with all hitboxes.}}
***{{buff|The innermost hitbox (the only one that can hit aerial opponents) is larger (5u → 6u) and is now extended (z offset 0 → -4 to 4), improving the looping hits' ability to hit aerial opponents.}}
***{{buff|The innermost hitbox deals more damage (1% → 2%).}}
**{{buff|Nayru's Love's loop hits' angles have been altered to send inward (10° → 160°). This makes it significantly more difficult to escape from.}}
**{{buff|The loop hits have a continuous duration, improving their hit detection (frame 13/16/19/22/25 → 13-24 (rehit rate 4)).}}
**{{nerf|The final hit uses 2 medium-sized extended hitboxes (7u/5u) instead of 5 larger ones (6u/7.8u/7u/7.8u/6u). They are also positioned closer to Zelda (z offset -12/-4/0/4/12 → -4 to 4, -11 to 11), reducing both their horizontal and vertical range.}}
***{{buff|However, all hitboxes can now hit aerial opponents instead of only the innermost one, significantly improving the final hit's range against aerial opponents.}}
***{{buff|The innermost hitbox deals more damage (3% → 5%).}}
**{{nerf|Due to consisting of four hits instead of six, Nayru's Love deals 4% less maximum damage (15% → 11%).}}
***{{buff|However, this is compensated by the damage increase for the innermost hitbox, as well as the looping hitboxes having altered priority, with the 2% hitboxes now having higher priority than the 1% hitboxes.}}
**{{nerf|Zelda no longer has access to her "[https://youtu.be/8djTa_wHqtE Love jump]" technique, hindering Nayru's Love's recovery and mixup potential.}}
**{{nerf|Zelda no longer has access to her "[https://youtu.be/8djTa_wHqtE Love jump]" technique, hindering Nayru's Love's recovery and mixup potential.}}
*[[Din's Fire]]:
*[[Din's Fire]]:
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**{{change|Due to consisting of a sweetspot and a sourspot instead of a consistent hitbox, Din's Fire has altered knockback (50 (base)/60 (growth) → 50/97 (sweetspot), 55/40 (sourspot)). This improves its KO potential when fully charged and sweetspotted, but significantly hinders its safety when sourspotted.}}
**{{change|Due to consisting of a sweetspot and a sourspot instead of a consistent hitbox, Din's Fire has altered knockback (50 (base)/60 (growth) → 50/97 (sweetspot), 55/40 (sourspot)). This improves its KO potential when fully charged and sweetspotted, but significantly hinders its safety when sourspotted.}}
*[[Farore's Wind]]:
*[[Farore's Wind]]:
**{{buff|Farore's Wind's second hit deals more damage (6% 10% (grounded sweetspot)/7% (grounded sourspot)/12% (aerial sweetspot)/8% (aerial sourspot)). Additionally, due to consisting of a sweetspot and a sourspot instead of a consistent hitbox, its second hit has altered knockback (40 (base)/100 (growth) 90/90 (grounded/aerial sweetspot), 70/90 (grounded/aerial sourspot)). Lastly, its aerial second hit's angle has been altered ([[Sakurai angle|361°]] → 55°). Altogether, these changes grant it KO potential when sweetspotted, especially while near the upper blast line, and improve its safety.}}
**{{buff|Farore's Wind has decreased start-up lag (frame 11 → 8). Additionally, it travels farther and covers significantly more height when used with a jump. Lastly, it now snaps the edge when first used, instead of requiring Zelda to reappear first. Altogether, these changes significantly improve its recovery potential.}}
**{{nerf|The aerial first hit has a slightly smaller hitbox (10.56u → 10.5u). The grounded first hit has a smaller hitbox (10.56u 8u) but is positioned lower and is now an extended hitbox (z offset -4 to 4), improving its horizontal reach, range below Zelda and its use as an out of shield option, especially with its faster startup.}}
**{{buff|Farore's Wind's grounded first hit's knockback (40 (base)/100 (growth) → 118/30) and angle have been altered (80° → 91°), granting it combo potential into its aerial second hit. Its aerial first hit also has increased base knockback (40 → 60).}}
**{{buff|Farore's Wind's grounded first hit's knockback (40 (base)/100 (growth) → 118/30) and angle have been altered (80° → 91°), granting it combo potential into its aerial second hit. Its aerial first hit also has increased base knockback (40 → 60).}}
**{{buff|Farore's Wind has decreased start-up lag (frame 11 8). Additionally, it travels farther and covers significantly more height when used with a jump. Lastly, it now snaps the edge when first used, instead of requiring Zelda to reappear first. Altogether, these changes significantly improve its recovery potential.}}
**{{buff|Farore Wind's second hit has larger hitboxes (9.6u 10u (grounded), 11u (aerial)). It also has new sourspots that greatly improve the move's range (15u (grounded), 16u (aerial)).}}
**{{buff|Farore's Wind's second hit deals more damage (6% → 10% (grounded sweetspot)/7% (grounded sourspot)/12% (aerial sweetspot)/8% (aerial sourspot)). Its second hit has higher knockback, especially for the sweetspots (40 (base)/100 (growth) → 90/90 (grounded/aerial sweetspot), 70/90 (grounded/aerial sourspot)). Lastly, its aerial second hit's angle has been altered to send more vertically ([[Sakurai angle|361°]] → 55°). Altogether, these changes grant it KO potential when sweetspotted, especially when near the side blast zones for the grounded reappearance and near the upper blast line for the aerial reappearance, and improve its safety on hit.}}
**{{change|Farore Wind's second hit now has a [[slash]] effect instead of a flame effect.}}
**{{change|Farore Wind's second hit now has a [[slash]] effect instead of a flame effect.}}
**{{nerf|Farore Wind's second hit deals more hitlag (1.0x → 1.5x (sweetspots)/1.2x (sourspots)).}}
**{{nerf|The grounded reappearance has significantly more ending lag (FAF 30 → 41), hindering the move's safety.}}
*[[Phantom Slash]]:
*[[Phantom Slash]]:
**{{buff|Zelda has a new down special, Phantom Slash. Phantom Slash is a [[charge]]able attack that summons a {{s|zeldawiki|Phantom}} and propels it forward in order to attack with its sword and/or block incoming attacks.<ref name="Direct"/> Unlike [[Transform]], it deals damage at any level of charge and has very high knockback when fully charged, making it capable of zoning and KOing. Despite this, Phantom Slash cannot be [[charge-cancel]]ed or held indefinitely.}}
**{{buff|Zelda has a new down special, Phantom Slash. Phantom Slash is a [[charge]]able attack that summons a {{s|zeldawiki|Phantom}} and propels it forward in order to attack with its sword and/or block incoming attacks.<ref name="Direct"/> Unlike [[Transform]], it deals damage at any level of charge and has very high knockback when fully charged, making it capable of zoning and KOing. Despite this, Phantom Slash cannot be [[charge-cancel]]ed or held indefinitely.}}
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