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Forum:General proposals/Archive 4: Difference between revisions
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== Using the tabber for stages and moves== | == Using the tabber for stages and moves== | ||
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:The moves names should play no part in the decision : Would you consider Bayonetta's neutral attack to be a different move based on the selected palette (because the guns from Bayonetta 1 are not named the same as the guns from Bayonetta 2) ? [[User:YoshiRyu|YoshiRyu]] ([[User talk:YoshiRyu|talk]]) 07:27, March 22, 2019 (EDT) | :The moves names should play no part in the decision : Would you consider Bayonetta's neutral attack to be a different move based on the selected palette (because the guns from Bayonetta 1 are not named the same as the guns from Bayonetta 2) ? [[User:YoshiRyu|YoshiRyu]] ([[User talk:YoshiRyu|talk]]) 07:27, March 22, 2019 (EDT) | ||
::You explained it perfectly. If some other character had a move called crownerang, I wouldn’t want to see all of K Rool’s advanced tech if I wanted to see the other crownerang. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 12:31, March 22, 2019 (EDT) | ::You explained it perfectly. If some other character had a move called crownerang, I wouldn’t want to see all of K Rool’s advanced tech if I wanted to see the other crownerang. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 12:31, March 22, 2019 (EDT) | ||
Alright so I made draft pages of what the merged starfox reflectors and and blasters would look like. Any edits are welcome incase it looks weird in some parts, but this was made for the purpose of seeing what it would look like and see if it can influence discussion on if the pages should be merged or not. The pages can be found at | Alright so I made draft pages of what the merged starfox reflectors and and blasters would look like. Any edits are welcome incase it looks weird in some parts, but this was made for the purpose of seeing what it would look like and see if it can influence discussion on if the pages should be merged or not. The pages can be found at User:Xtra3678/Blaster, and User:Xtra3678/Reflector. [[User:Xtra3678|<span style="color: Blue;">'''Xtra'''</span>]] [[File:Shulk_SSBU_foruser.png|25px]] [[User_talk:Xtra3678|<span style="color: Purple;">'''Talk'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Xtra3678|<span style="color: #CC0000">'''Edits'''</span>]] 08:08, March 22, 2019 (EDT) | ||
:I’m going to be completely honest here: They look terrible. There’s a bunch of tech on Fox’s reflector that wouldn’t be possible on Falco anymore even wih Melee physics and it never applied to Wolf. All the drafts did was convince me that they should stay separate. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 12:31, March 22, 2019 (EDT) | :I’m going to be completely honest here: They look terrible. There’s a bunch of tech on Fox’s reflector that wouldn’t be possible on Falco anymore even wih Melee physics and it never applied to Wolf. All the drafts did was convince me that they should stay separate. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 12:31, March 22, 2019 (EDT) | ||
::Thats why the techs only talk about fox mostly. They specifically mention fox only, and the ones that are applicable to falco mention falco. Plus this is still open to editing to make it look better on the merged page, but I still feel that merging reflector, and blaster is the smartest desision to make.[[User:Xtra3678|<span style="color: Blue;">'''Xtra'''</span>]] [[File:Shulk_SSBU_foruser.png|25px]] [[User_talk:Xtra3678|<span style="color: Purple;">'''Talk'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Xtra3678|<span style="color: #CC0000">'''Edits'''</span>]] 12:35, March 22, 2019 (EDT) | ::Thats why the techs only talk about fox mostly. They specifically mention fox only, and the ones that are applicable to falco mention falco. Plus this is still open to editing to make it look better on the merged page, but I still feel that merging reflector, and blaster is the smartest desision to make.[[User:Xtra3678|<span style="color: Blue;">'''Xtra'''</span>]] [[File:Shulk_SSBU_foruser.png|25px]] [[User_talk:Xtra3678|<span style="color: Purple;">'''Talk'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Xtra3678|<span style="color: #CC0000">'''Edits'''</span>]] 12:35, March 22, 2019 (EDT) | ||
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:::This is how I would organize the | :::This is how I would organize the User:Xtra3678/Blaster|Blaster and User:Xtra3678/Reflector|Reflector pages. [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 18:02, March 22, 2019 (EDT) | ||
::::That looks a lot worse because we're not actually merging any information there, just putting it on one page and we have a lot of repeated information (like the entirety of the throws section in blaster). I feel what it looked like before was better because of the information being together and a lack of repeated information. [[User:Xtra3678|<span style="color: Blue;">'''Xtra'''</span>]] [[File:Shulk_SSBU_foruser.png|25px]] [[User_talk:Xtra3678|<span style="color: Purple;">'''Talk'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Xtra3678|<span style="color: #CC0000">'''Edits'''</span>]] 01:22, March 23, 2019 (EDT) | ::::That looks a lot worse because we're not actually merging any information there, just putting it on one page and we have a lot of repeated information (like the entirety of the throws section in blaster). I feel what it looked like before was better because of the information being together and a lack of repeated information. [[User:Xtra3678|<span style="color: Blue;">'''Xtra'''</span>]] [[File:Shulk_SSBU_foruser.png|25px]] [[User_talk:Xtra3678|<span style="color: Purple;">'''Talk'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Xtra3678|<span style="color: #CC0000">'''Edits'''</span>]] 01:22, March 23, 2019 (EDT) | ||
:::::I just tried to make it resemble the [[Landmaster]] page, which is separated by character. Fox's info goes first, then Falco's, and finally Wolf's. Any repeated info can probably be rewritten into the Overview as that is most likely what they have in common, then the character specified info (such as minor differences, damage values, and techniques) can go in their respective character page. [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 01:38, March 23, 2019 (EDT) | :::::I just tried to make it resemble the [[Landmaster]] page, which is separated by character. Fox's info goes first, then Falco's, and finally Wolf's. Any repeated info can probably be rewritten into the Overview as that is most likely what they have in common, then the character specified info (such as minor differences, damage values, and techniques) can go in their respective character page. [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 01:38, March 23, 2019 (EDT) | ||
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Let me see if I can explain my reasoning a little better with an example. There are different types of dances, such as Waltz, Tango, Salsa, and FoxTrot. Each have different and similar techniques for the type of dance, which can be used to change it up a little. Such as going up and down in Waltz and shaking one's hips more in Salsa, or using a Triple-step over a Double-step. The Blasters, by name, are the same move (Dance), the characters just use them differently (technique). Same goes for the Reflectors. The Upperdash Arm and Electroshock Arm, by name, are different moves (Dances) with similar techniques. Same goes for the Bows and Capes. (''Please don't bring up Daisy's moves or Double-Edge Dance as they are currently the only exceptions to this.'') [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 16:47, April 1, 2019 (EDT) | Let me see if I can explain my reasoning a little better with an example. There are different types of dances, such as Waltz, Tango, Salsa, and FoxTrot. Each have different and similar techniques for the type of dance, which can be used to change it up a little. Such as going up and down in Waltz and shaking one's hips more in Salsa, or using a Triple-step over a Double-step. The Blasters, by name, are the same move (Dance), the characters just use them differently (technique). Same goes for the Reflectors. The Upperdash Arm and Electroshock Arm, by name, are different moves (Dances) with similar techniques. Same goes for the Bows and Capes. (''Please don't bring up Daisy's moves or Double-Edge Dance as they are currently the only exceptions to this.'') [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 16:47, April 1, 2019 (EDT) | ||
Honnestly, at this point, "pro-merge" people sound like people from the flat earth society, seriously... | |||
:Names are nothing more but a convention. Two people having the same name doesn't make them the same person. Why do you think that something as pointless as a name define a move !? It's like seeing homonyms and starting saying that they must be the same word because they're written with the same letters... a name is a convention. Fox's and Wolf's blaster aren't named the same because the devs considered them to be the same move but because they went the easy way. Why is that so hard to understand ? Do you really not realize that the names of any move could have been different if a single person, the guy who picked them, just decided to ? Stop trying to find a reason for why some moves have the same names and others don't, that's just a random thing. Daisy's moves are not an exception to the rules, because there is no rule. Moves likes the blasters are named the same simply because the person who did that was uninspired when he did that. There is no deep meaning behind those two moves being named the same, naming a move for the solely purpose of referencing it in a manual is not somehting anyone should consider as significant. Fox's and Wolf's blasters aren't the same moves, ask any Fox or Wolf players. | |||
::Think of it this way : | |||
::*Fox's blaster and Wolf's blaster are like homonyms : homonyms sound the same, but have a different meaning; just like blasters sound the same, but have a different function. | |||
::*Peach's bomber and Daisy's bomber are la synonyms : synonyms sound different, yet have the same meaning; just like bombers sound different, yet have the same function. | |||
::And please, don't ever tell me that Fox's blaster and Wolf's blaster are functionally similar. If you think so, I doubt you either played those characters, because Wolf's blaster is no more similiar to Fox's blaster than Mario's fireball is. Yes, they're both projectile, but that's it, the similarities go no further than that. [[User:YoshiRyu|YoshiRyu]] ([[User talk:YoshiRyu|talk]]) 18:03, April 1, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:::Could you please elaborate on the differences between the Star Fox Blasters and Reflectors that make them different "moves"? From my perspective, the previously mentioned differences I've seen just seem more like different techniques that can only be applied to the specific attributes of the individual character when using the moves, rather than entirely different moves. I'm just having a hard time understanding, even when looking at videos on, and the the Star Fox characters. (I have used them, but I prefer not to) [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 18:39, April 1, 2019 (EDT) | |||
Why don't you have this discussion on the [[Talk:Blaster (Fox)|proper article]]. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;border:outset #083 2px">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083;background:#ed0;padding:1px">Serpent</span>]][[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;background:#083;padding:1px">King</span>]]'''</span> 18:40, April 1, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:Section '''Merging and Splitting Moves 2.1''', sub-section '''Blasters & Reflectors''' seems like the right place to have this discussion (especially because it involve several pages, and also because it goes beyond the few moves we build our points upon). [[User:YoshiRyu|YoshiRyu]] ([[User talk:YoshiRyu|talk]]) 18:46, April 1, 2019 (EDT) | |||
::General proposals is not the place to do this. It's too easy to miss stuff here. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;border:outset #083 2px">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083;background:#ed0;padding:1px">Serpent</span>]][[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;background:#083;padding:1px">King</span>]]'''</span> 18:49, April 1, 2019 (EDT) | |||
:::But we are not just talking about the Blasters. Overall, we are also talking about the Reflectors, Upperdash Arm, Electroshock Arm, Palutena Bow, Silver Bow, Cape, and Super Sheet. They all fall under what were are currently discussing, which is whether or not we should merge and/or split them. Because of that, it makes more sense to discuss them here than it is to keep bringing up the other mentioned moves on 3 (or 10) different pages. [[User:Wolff| Wolff]] ([[User talk:Wolff|talk]]) 19:21, April 1, 2019 (EDT) | |||
This will simply never get done, due to 2 different oppinouns by different groups being spread about repeatedly back at each other with noone taking each others arguments in to account, and nothing ever getting done. what can we do to get something done. <span style="background:#ea244a;border:outset #906 6px">'''[[User:Xtra3678|Xtra]][[File:Xtra_headpng.png|20px]][[User talk:Xtra3678|<span style="color:Lime">Talk</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Xtra3678|<span style="color: Gold">Edits</span>]]'''</span> 13:20, April 4, 2019 (EDT) | |||
Just leave it alone tbh. Having them split or on one article barely matters in this case. <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;border:outset #083 2px">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083;background:#ed0;padding:1px">Serpent</span>]][[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0;background:#083;padding:1px">King</span>]]'''</span> 13:29, April 4, 2019 (EDT) | |||