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Talk:Tier list/Archive 7: Difference between revisions
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ok wario at one time I saw was in 1st place, wtf? snake who is very good lost 2nd place and is at 6th which makes no sense and ice climbers? really??? also pichu in melee who is terrible for getting hurt is now not in last place anymore, wow you tournament nerds think you can beat anybody with meta knight, lol of course since he is so cheap.why do you guys keep changing the fricken list if you say that its right??? if seems you people have NO idea what you're talking about, lol. email me if you do k? :)<small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User: | ok wario at one time I saw was in 1st place, wtf? snake who is very good lost 2nd place and is at 6th which makes no sense and ice climbers? really??? also pichu in melee who is terrible for getting hurt is now not in last place anymore, wow you tournament nerds think you can beat anybody with meta knight, lol of course since he is so cheap.why do you guys keep changing the fricken list if you say that its right??? if seems you people have NO idea what you're talking about, lol. email me if you do k? :)<small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:71.35.21.213|71.35.21.213]] ([[User talk:71.35.21.213|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/71.35.21.213|contribs]]) 12:21, 14 June 2014 </small> | ||
:The reason why these changes within the years is because it is the Smash Back Rooms that made the tier lists to keep up with how well all the characters is doing in tournaments up to date. Also, sign your comments with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> and use proper grammar. [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="green">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:Link OoT Dots.PNG|16px]] The Peaceful 12:24, 14 June 2014 (EDT) | :The reason why these changes within the years is because it is the Smash Back Rooms that made the tier lists to keep up with how well all the characters is doing in tournaments up to date. Also, sign your comments with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> and use proper grammar. [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="green">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:Link OoT Dots.PNG|16px]] The Peaceful 12:24, 14 June 2014 (EDT) | ||
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::It's true that anyone can make a tier list, but it's ''widely accepted'' that those characters are among the best in the game. SmashWiki reports not only on what the SBR says, but also from unofficial sources, such as the community at large. It's different from some random person making up a tier list because a very large number of players in the community think so, and a lot of these players are professionals at the game. Before there were things such as SSBMRank, players like {{Sm|Mew2King}} and {{Sm|Mango}} were considered to be among the best ''Smash'' players in the world, even though there was no official ranking to label them so. It's the same thing here. | ::It's true that anyone can make a tier list, but it's ''widely accepted'' that those characters are among the best in the game. SmashWiki reports not only on what the SBR says, but also from unofficial sources, such as the community at large. It's different from some random person making up a tier list because a very large number of players in the community think so, and a lot of these players are professionals at the game. Before there were things such as SSBMRank, players like {{Sm|Mew2King}} and {{Sm|Mango}} were considered to be among the best ''Smash'' players in the world, even though there was no official ranking to label them so. It's the same thing here. | ||
::The reddit source I listed attached a link to a forum in Japanese, which I guess is the tier list produced there. A Google search of "smash 4 tier list japan" or something similar yields a lot of posts about a tier list in Japan. Also, there are articles on SmashWiki of tier lists of other regions, such as [[Japanese tier list]] and | ::The reddit source I listed attached a link to a forum in Japanese, which I guess is the tier list produced there. A Google search of "smash 4 tier list japan" or something similar yields a lot of posts about a tier list in Japan. Also, there are articles on SmashWiki of tier lists of other regions, such as [[Japanese tier list]] and Brazilian tier list. [[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Awesome'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Cardinal'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''2000'''</span>]] 22:47, 19 January 2015 (EST) | ||
:::I'm well aware that we have those pages here. And, again, I'm well aware that the community holds those opinions. But this page is about the '''SBR's''' tier list, not the Japanese one. I am one who has no objections to you putting what you put on this page over [[Japanese tier list|here]], but I'd honestly wait on an admin's approval on that one. [[File:AidanzapunkSig.jpg]][[User:BlueStreak|<span style="color: blue;">'''BlueStreak'''</span>]] [[User talk:BlueStreak|<span style="color: blue;">'''Speeds By'''</span>]] 22:50, 19 January 2015 (EST) | :::I'm well aware that we have those pages here. And, again, I'm well aware that the community holds those opinions. But this page is about the '''SBR's''' tier list, not the Japanese one. I am one who has no objections to you putting what you put on this page over [[Japanese tier list|here]], but I'd honestly wait on an admin's approval on that one. [[File:AidanzapunkSig.jpg]][[User:BlueStreak|<span style="color: blue;">'''BlueStreak'''</span>]] [[User talk:BlueStreak|<span style="color: blue;">'''Speeds By'''</span>]] 22:50, 19 January 2015 (EST) | ||
::::This page is not supposed to be exclusively about the SBR tier list, and if it is, it shouldn't be that way. This article is about tiers and tier lists in general; the SBR tier lists are put here because they are the ones most widely accepted by the community; even people in Japan and Latin America usually refer to the SBR's tier lists. If the Japanese tier list was the most widely trusted source, it would be listed here instead of the SBR tier list. | ::::This page is not supposed to be exclusively about the SBR tier list, and if it is, it shouldn't be that way. This article is about tiers and tier lists in general; the SBR tier lists are put here because they are the ones most widely accepted by the community; even people in Japan and Latin America usually refer to the SBR's tier lists. If the Japanese tier list was the most widely trusted source, it would be listed here instead of the SBR tier list. | ||
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::::::I think I've made myself clear. It's late, I don't have time for this, and I just think it's time this whole argument would shut the fuck up. [[File:AidanzapunkSig.jpg]][[User:BlueStreak|<span style="color: blue;">'''BlueStreak'''</span>]] [[User talk:BlueStreak|<span style="color: blue;">'''Speeds By'''</span>]] 01:07, 25 January 2015 (EST) | ::::::I think I've made myself clear. It's late, I don't have time for this, and I just think it's time this whole argument would shut the fuck up. [[File:AidanzapunkSig.jpg]][[User:BlueStreak|<span style="color: blue;">'''BlueStreak'''</span>]] [[User talk:BlueStreak|<span style="color: blue;">'''Speeds By'''</span>]] 01:07, 25 January 2015 (EST) | ||
:::::::''"The tier list is about all characters relating to each other. Not how one character who is supposedly at the top is better than all the rest. And another thing: citing the community as a source? You make me laugh HISTERICALLY. Normally, if you ask anyone what their least favorite thing about a video game is, they'll probably name a level, or a character, or a stage, or some other shit like that. But me? I yell at the god damn fanbase. Seriously, the Smash fandom is about as bad as the Sonic fanbase. They make shitty decisions constantly, and they act like idiots when they try to defend their claims. You, my dear friend, are no exception. Don't think I'm hiding behind the admin because he has all the power, because I'm not, but miles has clearly stated that it's either all or nothing. That is all. I do not understand what is hard to get from that."'' | |||
:::::::Read everything that I wrote. The people thinking this are not a scrubby "fanbase" as you perceive them to be, these opinions are based off people from the '''competitive community''' and '''professional players.''' They are the most knowledgeable players in the community. I don't know what to tell you if you think these players don't know shit about the game they play. | |||
:::::::''":'''where do you draw the god damn line?'''"'' | |||
:::::::Read the shit that I wrote. There are several characters perceived by the '''community''' to be top tier, while others are perceived to be high, mid, low, or bottom tier. '''We report on what the community thinks.''' The community has already made strong opinions towards these characters, and there is a general consensus among which characters are top tier already. Because the page feels awkwardly blank without any information about Smash 4, and the fact that the community thinks certain characters are top tier is important and notable encyclopedic content. Yes there'll be an "official" tier list in a few months, but how hard is it to just change the content of the article? If you don't like reading something, don't read it and don't let it bother you. Don't reply to me if you really don't want to. [[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Awesome'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Cardinal'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''2000'''</span>]] 09:05, 25 January 2015 (EST) | |||
:::::Well, with this page being put under protection for two weeks by an admin who opposes your edit and the other admin has explained why he's not going to let you do it, I think that this debate is quite frankly over and your not going to do anything about it. I '''really, really, don't want to almost have to make two archives''' of this one discussion like on the Neutral attack talk page, so let's just say you lose, and it's game over for this debate. [[User:Dots|<font color="red">'''D'''</font><font color="green">'''o'''</font><font color="blue">'''t'''</font><font color="purple">'''s'''</font>]] ([[User talk:Dots|talk]]) [[File:Link OoT Dots.PNG|16px]] The Arceus 01:24, 25 January 2015 (EST) | |||
::::::I have absolutely no objections to that. Before this edit was made, this page ''alone'' was a whopping '''52 KB'''. ...I think what we should do next is self explanatory. [[File:AidanzapunkSig.jpg]][[User:BlueStreak|<span style="color: blue;">'''BlueStreak'''</span>]] [[User talk:BlueStreak|<span style="color: blue;">'''Speeds By'''</span>]] 01:26, 25 January 2015 (EST) | |||
:::::::Why should I lose when you guys, including the admin who protected this page, have clearly failed to respond to the stuff I said? I'll add it back in when it becomes unprotected then. Why does it matter that administrators oppose my viewpoint? Adminstators are not kings. [[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Awesome'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Cardinal'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''2000'''</span>]] 09:36, 25 January 2015 (EST) | |||
Clearly nobody agrees with you that "the page feels awkwardly blank" is a reason to jump the gun. Can you accept that? | |||
Now, that being said, lost in all this is the fact that there is indeed a Japanese tier list that we could potentially add somewhere. But to do that, we would need to conclude that it has strong standing within the Japanese community, and I don't know how to prove that. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Indescribable 09:11, 25 January 2015 (EST) | |||
:I certainly don't feel that the page is awkwardly blank without Smash 4 stuff. And also, I dunno about the Japanese tier list, because it's from reddit, and basically anyone can make a tier list, regardless of region. [[File:AidanzapunkSig.jpg]][[User:BlueStreak|<span style="color: blue;">'''BlueStreak'''</span>]] [[User talk:BlueStreak|<span style="color: blue;">'''Speeds By'''</span>]] 09:13, 25 January 2015 (EST) | |||
::The source I linked in the section above was not written by someone from reddit, it was a link to a translation of Japanese text. I can't read Japanese, but you could probably look more into the original text if you want. | |||
::Even if this doesn't go into effect, I hope you all at least realize that the conpetitive community's opinion is an important, notable, and reliable citation, and that the title of this page shouldn't severely restrict the content of the article. [[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Awesome'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Cardinal'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''2000'''</span>]] 10:42, 25 January 2015 (EST) | |||
:::We can cite "the community" when we can offer one or two links that refer to a conglomeration of many high-ranking community members' opinions - and that's when the tier list comes out. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] Da Bess 10:48, 25 January 2015 (EST) | |||
::::Original Japanese Tier list source: https://game8.jp/matome/16664 , now I remember another list from that site (this one: https://game8.jp/matome/14157) being cited as just some people's opinions when it popped up as "official" a few months ago, and was really only cited as official from the american community (iirc) The Smashboards post probably still exists, but I can't seem to find it right now.... As for this, I don't know what the Japanese community thinks of it, but their old tier list dis-credits it a bit. [[User:Laikue|Laikue]] ([[User talk:Laikue|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Laikue|contribs]]) 12:39, 25 January 2015 (EST) | |||
:Honestly, general consensus so far sounds more like it belongs in the [[Metagame]] page, since we still don't have any specific sources to go off of. That's just my opinion. [[Special:Contributions/107.77.90.35|107.77.90.35]] 13:17, 25 January 2015 (EST) | |||