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:::::As for the Zelda/Sheik thing, true they have their own slot on the tier list together, but what is to say that if the trainer gimmick's faults were removed, they too would share that? One major difference is that the Zelda/Sheik transformation doesn't share the same risk that the pokemon switch does. And for a switch to be feasible, switching to another Pokemon would have to give you a greater advantage than you currently have assuming you're using the best pokemon for the matchup, and how often would that show up? If switching from Squirtle to live longer, you still have to make another switch after you get KO'd to get back to him, which in turn can lead to a free shot for the opponent and/or sacrificing a potential offensive opportunity. I intend to keep this brief, when comparing to Zelda/Sheik, switching is more difficult to do, and there is less practical opportunity to do so. Having a proper down special has a higher potential for benefit for them more than switching to another character would. The argument could be made for Zelda/Sheik as well. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 18:28, 28 March 2011 (EDT) | :::::As for the Zelda/Sheik thing, true they have their own slot on the tier list together, but what is to say that if the trainer gimmick's faults were removed, they too would share that? One major difference is that the Zelda/Sheik transformation doesn't share the same risk that the pokemon switch does. And for a switch to be feasible, switching to another Pokemon would have to give you a greater advantage than you currently have assuming you're using the best pokemon for the matchup, and how often would that show up? If switching from Squirtle to live longer, you still have to make another switch after you get KO'd to get back to him, which in turn can lead to a free shot for the opponent and/or sacrificing a potential offensive opportunity. I intend to keep this brief, when comparing to Zelda/Sheik, switching is more difficult to do, and there is less practical opportunity to do so. Having a proper down special has a higher potential for benefit for them more than switching to another character would. The argument could be made for Zelda/Sheik as well. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 18:28, 28 March 2011 (EDT) | ||
::::::How is Pokemon Change riskier? You're incorporeal for a brief amount of time and are then vulnerable for a few frames after the transformation. The risk is the same. Also, with switching after a KO, I said that a possible change would be the option to stay as your current Pokemon, so the option to switch would still be there. So if you wanted to you could die as Charizard and then respawn as Squirtle, no problem. Or you could respawn as Charizard, it's your choice. Another benefit to the PT without stamina is that you wouldn't have to have a secondary to beat counters to the PT if you main him because nobody can counter all three Pokemon. As for "more desireable" characters like Mewtwo and Roy, Roy was considered a clone of Marth. As much as I miss him, a new character gets priority over a clone. Mewtwo wasn't as popular anymore because Diamond/Pearl was the next big thing Pokemon wise. --[[User:Spenstar|Spenstar]] ([[User talk:Spenstar|talk]]) 19:23, 28 March 2011 (EDT) | |||
::::::::Pokemon change is riskier as it leaves the pokemon more vulnerable after the switch more than the Zelda/Sheik transformation. They don't take the same amount of time. And unlike with Zelda/Sheik, you have to cycle through another character to get back to the original character you were using. As for secondaries, if the trainer was changed to how we said, then yes, you are still learning "secondaries" to avoid being countered. You're treating the pokemon of the trainer as the same character, they're not. So if you're learning Charizard and Ivysaur in addition to Squirtle, you're still learning other characters to the same amount that learning Luigi and Snake in addition to Squirtle would be. So the argument "with the Pokemon Trainer, you don't have to learn secondaries" is wrong. The statement that no character counters all the pokemon is faulty as well, as there are characters who hold a matchup advantage against all three. And my original argument was in relation to this, why would you switch out from the pokemon that gave you the best matchup during the match if you could stay as them? Such as, if you were facing King Dedede, why would you ever want to switch from Squirtle when he has by far the matchup out of the three against him? And in this matchup, what would help you more? Having Squirtle with a potentially useful down special to aid in the matchup, or changing to a character that radically changes the matchup in the opponent's favor? | |||
::::::::As I said previously, the ability to change to another character midmatch is much better sounding that it actually is. There's a reason why Zelda/Sheik mainers rarely use the other character in the same match, or why you never see a Samus utilise the taunt trick to change to Zamus midmatch in a serious match. | |||
::::::::As for Roy being a cloned, why couldn't he be decloned? Falco and Ganondorf got decloned to a degree, Roy could of been as well, which would again, I'm sure would be the more popular choice over an individual pokemon of the Pokemon Trainer. As for Mewtwo "not being as popular anymore because Diamond/Pearl was the next big thing Pokemon wise", I don't see the logic behind that. Even if for some reason the new generation made him less popular, it would of done so to the pokemon of the Pokemon Trainer, and Mewtwo would of kept his significance. | |||
::::::::But regardless, with the Pokemon Trainer as is, you got a terrible gimmick that severely limits the characters involved in a way no other character is limited. And with the detriment of that gimmick removed, you're left with essentially three stand alone characters, whose character slot would be better filled by more deserving/popular characters. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 20:29, 28 March 2011 (EDT) | |||
i think theyre running out of names, whats next, super smash bros rumble?--[[User:kyle.b|<span style="color: blue;">'''kyle.b'''</span>]] [[User talk:kyle.b|''<span style="color:blue;">talk</span>'']] [[Image:KirbyHeadSSBB.png|20px]] 12:47, 29 March 2011 (EDT) | |||
:Rumble is a very tossed around title for the portable installment of the SSB series, and is likely going to be the only way it will be used. <span style="font-family:Forte">[[User:Megatron1|<span style="color:maroon">Mega</span>]][[User talk:Megatron1|<span style="color:silver">Tron1</span>]][[User:Megatron1/Laughology|<span style="color:blue">XD</span>]]</span>[[File:Decepticon.png|19px|:p]] 18:50, 29 March 2011 (EDT) | |||
::LOL Super Smash Bros ''Altercation'' hahaha, but seriously they could still use ''Clash'' and ''Riot''--[[User:Shaun's Wiji Dodo|<span style="color: green;">'''Shaun's Wiji Dodo'''</span>]] [[User talk:Shaun's Wiji Dodo|''<span style="color: green;">talk</span>'']] [[File:Untitled-1_copy.gif ]] 19:05, 29 March 2011 (EDT) | |||
:::''Super Smash Bros. Altercation'' should definitely be the name of the next Smash Bros. Screw Rumble, Clash, and Riot. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 19:10, 29 March 2011 (EDT) | |||
:::Super Smash Bros. Beatdown --[[User:Spenstar|Spenstar]] ([[User talk:Spenstar|talk]]) 23:12, 29 March 2011 (EDT) | |||
Zoroark, Lucario, Victini and Mewtwo should be in the next game.[[User:Rising Dragon|Rising Dragon]] ([[User talk:Rising Dragon|talk]]) 02:18, 9 April 2011 (EDT) | |||
I think Hammer bro and Knuckle joe should come in, instead of being an assist trophies. and... what about original characters? like... Mrs Game and watch? who knew... If Louie came, i wonder what's the different between he and Olimar? Waluigi should came in too, Adeline can be a decent character, i guess. and i hope next game, there's a part of Meta knight unmasked, since he is so CUTE!--[[User:Lucasthefourth|<span style="color:red">Lucasthefourth ]]</span> [[User talk:Lucasthefourth|<span style="color:blue">'''PK Thunder!!''']]</span>[[Image:Lucas_kirby.jpg |30px]] 09:29, 10 April 2011 (EDT) | |||
Oh, i got some more. Daisy, Keeby, Mr.L, Kat&Ana (like ice climbers, Dixie kong, Jake(Advance war), Dry Bowser, Rosalina, Birdo, Silver, and Goombario.[[User:Lucasthefourth|<span style="color:red">Lucasthefourth ]]</span> [[User talk:Lucasthefourth|<span style="color:blue">'''Spartan''' </span> <span style="color:yellow">'''birds''']]</span>[[Image:Lucas_kirby.jpg |30px]] 08:04, 17 April 2011 (EDT) | |||
[[User:JakeTheSmasher|Jake the Smasher]] [[User talk:JakeTheSmasher|<span style="color:orange">'''Behold, the aura!''']] | |||
Here's my idea; | |||
#Ridley - [[Metroid (universe)|Metroid]] | |||
#Pokémon Trainer (Snivy, Pignite, Samurott) - [[Pokémon (universe)|Pokémon]] | |||
#Mii - Nintendo Wii and 3DS | |||
#Samurai Goroh - [[F-Zero (universe)|F-Zero]] | |||
#Ancient Minister (shares with R.O.B.) - [[Robot (universe)|Robot]] | |||
#Matthew - [[Golden Sun (universe)|Golden Sun]] | |||
#Starfy - [[Starfy (universe)|The Legendary Starfy]] | |||
#Little Mac - [[Punch-Out!! (universe)|Punch-Out!!]] | |||
#Young Link/Deku Link/Goron Link/Zora Link - [[The Legend of Zelda (universe)|The Legend of Zelda]] | |||
#Miyamoto - Real World | |||
#Geno - [[Mario (universe)|Super Mario Bros.]] | |||
#Miciaiah - [[Fire Emblem (universe)|Fire Emblem]] | |||
#Krystal - [[Star Fox (universe)|Star Fox]] | |||
#Mega Man - Mega Man (third party) | |||
#Hard Man - Mega Man (third party) | |||
I'll explain why I picked these guys later, and I would appreciate more requests for new characters. | |||
#All characters from Melee and Brawl plus extra [[User:Cherrim98|<font color="green">Cherrim</font><font color="red">98</font>]][[File:Cherrim Box Sprite.png|32px]][[User talk:Cherrim98|''<span style="color: pink;">Talk</span>'']] 20:43, 22 September 2011 (EDT) | |||
Pick from the list of; | |||
#Bowser Jr. I'd like a Shadow Mario transformation, but I'm doubting its chances. | |||
#Paper Mario | |||
#King K. Rool | |||
#Captain Rainbow | |||
#Toon Zelda/Tetra/Phantom | |||
#Skyward Sword Rep | |||
#Yarn Kirby/Prince Fluff | |||
#Metroid Rep (I'm not so good with Metroid, but I'd choose against Ridley. He'd need a new grounded playstyle, and I'm not saying he can't be scaled down from the Metroid games, but rather scaling him down from his Boss Size in Brawl might be strange. Not out of the question, but I'd say someone like Sylux or Dark Samus.) | |||
#Meowth | |||
#B/W Trainer/Cheren/N/Alder with Snivy, Dewott & Emboar | |||
#Other Gen V Rep such as Zoroark, Victini or Bisharp. | |||
#SWADLOON! jk | |||
#Krystal | |||
#Magnus | |||
#Black Shadow | |||
#Matthew (Isaac's a bit old now, plus the Links come from the newer ends of the timeline, so can the Golden Sun rep.) | |||
#Takamaru (I wouldn't add him myself, his only appearances were on Nazo No Murasomeja ((NES, Japan Only)), Captain Rainbow ((Already have Captain Rainbow himself)) and Samurai Warriors 3 ((Multiformat, making that appearance pseudo-third party)) ) | |||
#Claus | |||
#Fire Emblem 13 (3DS) Hero (Due to similar fighting styles from what has been seen so far, may have to replace Marth) | |||
#Micaiah | |||
#Little Mac | |||
#Sukapon | |||
#Mii | |||
#Capcom Rep | |||
#Geno/Other Square Enix Rep | |||
#Dragon King | |||
[[User:ToastUltimatum|<font color="darkorange">Toast</font><font color="darkbrown">Ultimatum</font>]] [[File:Transparent Swadloon.png|27px]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|''<span style="color: silver;">Complaints Box</span>'']] 14:12, 23 September 2011 (EDT) | |||