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Omega Tyrant (talk | contribs) (Official proposal for a "Retired characters" entry) |
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:If a character is listed as used by them on rankings like WWR, I would assume the tournament results would be there to back it up, so it would be fine unless it's outdated. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 19:45, February 23, 2021 (EST) | :If a character is listed as used by them on rankings like WWR, I would assume the tournament results would be there to back it up, so it would be fine unless it's outdated. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 19:45, February 23, 2021 (EST) | ||
Another related point that has bothered me for a while. At what point do we consider player a "professional" of that character? For example, VoiD is listed as a Peach and Daisy professional even though he only used them seriously at one regional; most of the other times they were used as a counterpick, but even then seldom against other notable players. Yes that one time he used them seriously he did get 2nd, but I don't believe that's enough to give him the Peach and Daisy professional category. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 13:42, March 1, 2021 (EST) | |||
:I agree, the way I always handled putting secondaries into those categories was, would the players' results with those characters isolated be enough on their own to merit a smasher article? If not, then they don't belong, no matter how good and noteworthy the player is in general. It can get tricky with niche but otherwise high profile counterpicks (like Armada's Young Link, who would definitely merit that category but if his YL results were isolated into their own hypothetical player, it would call into question just how much a few big wins can carry notability), but usually this standard should hold up fine. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 14:59, March 1, 2021 (EST) | |||
==Official proposal for a "Retired characters" entry== | ==Official proposal for a "Retired characters" entry== | ||
{{proposal|passed}} | |||
Enough people have raised concerns about removing former mains and other significant past characters from smashers' infoboxes, such as the aforementioned Mango Jigglypuff and Tweek Bowser Jr., so here is the official proposal mentioned before on if we should add a "Retired characters" entry. I'm still neutral on the idea, but will go add it if consensus agrees we should keep past historically significant characters in the players' infoboxes. Also if you have any name ideas, suggest those too, as if we go through it, I'm unsure if it should just be called "Retired characters". As a note if we do add this entry, it would only be for characters the player '''''had significant results''''' with, it won't be used for sandbagging characters, characters they only played for a few sets, nor flavor-of-the-week characters they picked up once and then never played again. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 22:53, February 26, 2021 (EST) | Enough people have raised concerns about removing former mains and other significant past characters from smashers' infoboxes, such as the aforementioned Mango Jigglypuff and Tweek Bowser Jr., so here is the official proposal mentioned before on if we should add a "Retired characters" entry. I'm still neutral on the idea, but will go add it if consensus agrees we should keep past historically significant characters in the players' infoboxes. Also if you have any name ideas, suggest those too, as if we go through it, I'm unsure if it should just be called "Retired characters". As a note if we do add this entry, it would only be for characters the player '''''had significant results''''' with, it won't be used for sandbagging characters, characters they only played for a few sets, nor flavor-of-the-week characters they picked up once and then never played again. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 22:53, February 26, 2021 (EST) | ||
===Support=== | ===Support=== | ||
#'''Slight support'''. While there will still be some bloat, it's better than what we have at this moment. The only concern I have is arguments that the player hasn't "retired" the character, such as [https://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=Smasher%3AVoiD&type=revision&diff=1529935&oldid=1526656 this example]. To that, I believe the rule of thumb for "retired" characters should be 6 months. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 22:59, February 26, 2021 (EST) | |||
#'''Support''': Basically what I wrote above applies here. [[File:Toad.png|20px]] '''[[User:Omega Toad|<font color="deepskyblue">Omegα Toαd,</font>]] [[User talk:Omega Toad|<font color="blue">the Toαd Wαrrior.</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Omega Toad|<font color="#7B5BEE">(BUP)</font>]]''' 23:11, February 26, 2021 (EST) | |||
#'''Do it, makes total sense.''' One question though, how would retired players be handled? Would all of their characters be bumped to retired? <span style="font-family:Algerian;font-size:10pt;background:#000;border:outset #083 2px;padding:1px 3px">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#083">Serpent</span>]] [[File:SKSig.png|12px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#ed0">King</span>]]'''</span> 23:45, February 26, 2021 (EST) | |||
#'''Support''', this'll help with organization a lot. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: red;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: pink;">'''the Lovely Rurouni'''</span>]] 12:22, February 27, 2021 (EST) | |||
===Oppose=== | |||
===Comments=== | |||
@SK: We would just judge from the point they last played, i.e. the characters they used within their last six months of activity (or say last six tournies if their activity was sparse) will be listed as their active characters still, while those not used within that timeframe will go into the retired entry if significant enough. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 23:49, February 26, 2021 (EST) | |||
I do have a clarification question. Would Nairo's Ganondorf be considered significant enough? Although he only used it in one tournament set, he beat Light in a reverse 3-0 with that character and is also ranked with him on the PGRU. Same with his Robin, only this time with LeoN and the character's not ranked with him. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 23:53, February 26, 2021 (EST) | |||
:I'm really iffy on including any such niche counterpick like that, the only argument I see for it is Ganon being considered a bottom tier character lowers the standards while it's the biggest offline win anyone has gotten with Ganon. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 23:57, February 26, 2021 (EST) | |||
=== | Bumping this, want to make a decision after tonight. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 21:31, February 27, 2021 (EST) | ||
=== | Well with no opposition and considering other comments from discord, I'm '''passing''' this proposal, and the retired parameters for the smasher infoboxes are now live. You can refer to the [[Template:Infobox Smasher/doc|template doc]] to see how they work. As a reminder, '''''do not put every past character ever used in the retired entries''''', only characters the player achieved noteworthy success with should go into the retried entries. Like I mentioned above regarding "other characters", characters should generally only be included in the retired entries if a player's isolated success with them would have been enough to achieve notability for an article here (and get included in the characters' individual smasher categories), though more borderline or otherwise murky cases should be discussed before including no longer used characters in those entries. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 15:44, March 2, 2021 (EST) |