6,443
edits
Talk:Sheik/Archive 1: Difference between revisions
no edit summary
No edit summary |
|||
| (32 intermediate revisions by 14 users not shown) | |||
| Line 1: | Line 1: | ||
{{archive}} | |||
==zelda?== | ==zelda?== | ||
I don't see why we have a picture that says "Zelda" on it in the Sheik article. --[[User: ycz12|ycz12]] | I don't see why we have a picture that says "Zelda" on it in the Sheik article. --[[User: ycz12|ycz12]] | ||
| Line 41: | Line 42: | ||
==Profile image== | ==Profile image== | ||
{{ImageCaption|File:Sheik Twilight Princess.png|File: | {{ImageCaption|File:Sheik Twilight Princess.png|File:Sheik.png|width1=120x120px|width2=120x120px|caption='''Left Image:''' ''Twilight Princess'' design<br>'''Right Image:''' ''Ocarina of Time'' design}} | ||
Which do you think should be used for her profile default image? I personally think we need to go with her Twilight Princess design for her profile image as its the one that matches her current appearance in smash. Going with her OoT design just densest make sense, since her OoT appearance hasn't been in Smash Bros. since Melee. It creates inconsistency by referring too her OoT appearance as her main profile image when she doesn't even use it in the Smash Bros. games anymore. It's her most current, and most used, design in the Smash series so I feel its a better fit than her one-time OoT appearance.<br>[[User:Ixbran|Ixbran]] ([[User talk:Ixbran|talk]]) 18:17, 22 April 2014 (EDT) | Which do you think should be used for her profile default image? I personally think we need to go with her Twilight Princess design for her profile image as its the one that matches her current appearance in smash. Going with her OoT design just densest make sense, since her OoT appearance hasn't been in Smash Bros. since Melee. It creates inconsistency by referring too her OoT appearance as her main profile image when she doesn't even use it in the Smash Bros. games anymore. It's her most current, and most used, design in the Smash series so I feel its a better fit than her one-time OoT appearance.<br>[[User:Ixbran|Ixbran]] ([[User talk:Ixbran|talk]]) 18:17, 22 April 2014 (EDT) | ||
:Here's the thing. The "Twilight Princess" artwork was made especially for Brawl. In the main image, we always use a non-Smash image. The "Twilight Princess" image may be newer, but it was only made for Brawl. They didn't make it for Twilight Princess. <span style="font-family:AR JULIAN; font-size:12pt">[[User:ChuckNorris24|<span style="color :#ffbf00">Chuck</span>]][[User talk:ChuckNorris24|<span style="color:purple">Norris</span>]]</span>[[File:24.png|23px]] 19:39, 22 April 2014 (EDT) | :Here's the thing. The "Twilight Princess" artwork was made especially for Brawl. In the main image, we always use a non-Smash image. The "Twilight Princess" image may be newer, but it was only made for Brawl. They didn't make it for Twilight Princess. <span style="font-family:AR JULIAN; font-size:12pt">[[User:ChuckNorris24|<span style="color :#ffbf00">Chuck</span>]][[User talk:ChuckNorris24|<span style="color:purple">Norris</span>]]</span>[[File:24.png|23px]] 19:39, 22 April 2014 (EDT) | ||
| Line 123: | Line 124: | ||
:::::Smash 4 Sheik arguably has a resemblance to OoT Sheik. [[File:Aidanzapunksignature.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: black;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: orange">'''Master of Speed and Aura'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 15:02, 29 October 2015 (EDT) | :::::Smash 4 Sheik arguably has a resemblance to OoT Sheik. [[File:Aidanzapunksignature.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: black;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: orange">'''Master of Speed and Aura'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 15:02, 29 October 2015 (EDT) | ||
::::::SSB4 Sheik is the same as the Brawl design (ponytail, dagger, etc.) and the Brawl design is confirmed by Sakurai to be based on TP concept art, which was officially published in a book by Nintendo. I don't see what the problem is here. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 15:05, 29 October 2015 (EDT) | ::::::SSB4 Sheik is the same as the Brawl design (ponytail, dagger, etc.) and the Brawl design is confirmed by Sakurai to be based on TP concept art, which was officially published in a book by Nintendo. I don't see what the problem is here. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 15:05, 29 October 2015 (EDT) | ||
<small>(Reset indent) </small> It's Nutta's argument, not mine...I'm just jumping on because I have similar thoughts and opinions. [[File:Aidanzapunksignature.png|20px]][[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: black;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: orange">'''Master of Speed and Aura'''</span>]][[File:AidanzapunkSignaturesmall.PNG]] 15:06, 29 October 2015 (EDT) | |||
:Hyrule Historia using it ''as concept art'' in no way makes it official- it's still a doodle that's only intended to should what it ''could'' be. That's different from the promotional artwork that we use on every other character's page (excluding [[Lucas]]/[[Ice Climbers]]/[[Duck Hunt]], who have no promotional art, so we use sprites), so it's also a consistency problem. And I'm not saying we should remove it- it should definitely be on there somewhere. But I feel like it's more professional to feature the promotional art, and have the conceptual doodle put to the side, like Ocarina Link or SF64 Fox. <small><font color="black">---</font><font color="orange">Preceding unsigned comment added by</font> [[Special:MyPage|<font color="black">BOO</font>]]! <font color="orange">Or maybe</font> [[User:Nutta Butta|<font color="orange">Nutta.</font>]] </small> 15:26, 29 October 2015 (EDT) | |||
::I don't understand why you're dismissively calling it a "doodle", when it's clearly one of the most polished designs in the HH concept art. Also, artwork doesn't have to be "promotional" to be "official", which is what has always been the term I thought we were going with. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 15:40, 29 October 2015 (EDT) | |||
:::Promotional artwork is artwork released officially by the company to go with and promote the game, and that's official. Concept artwork is artwork created well in advance of the game to show how a character, location, etc. could look in the final game, and is generally only released after the game has been out for awhile as an example of what could have happened. It's not official, it's just an example of the process. All other artwork is generally used in some way or another for promotion, and thus I find it meaningless to separate promotional art from official art. | |||
:::Either way, this is not really a debate about whether or not the concept art is official (which, much like Linkle's HW artwork, Chicken Mario from NSMBW, etc., it really isn't) and more of a debate as to whether or not unofficial art/conceptual art really belongs in an infobox. I don't believe it does. <small><font color="black">---</font><font color="orange">Preceding unsigned comment added by</font> [[Special:MyPage|<font color="black">BOO</font>]]! <font color="orange">Or maybe</font> [[User:Nutta Butta|<font color="orange">Nutta.</font>]] </small> 15:57, 29 October 2015 (EDT) | |||
::::I would agree to avoid using concept art in the infobox if it weren't explicitly stated as the source of the Smash design. That's what makes the difference in my mind. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 17:12, 29 October 2015 (EDT) | |||
:::::Well, but we also have official artwork which is explicitly the source of the Smash design, just not the most recent one, and I think that a good way to avoid the unprofessionalism of using concept art in the infobox while still showing the source of Sheik's design is just to simply trade the images' locations. <small><font color="black">---</font><font color="orange">Preceding unsigned comment added by</font> [[Special:MyPage|<font color="black">BOO</font>]]! <font color="orange">Or maybe</font> [[User:Nutta Butta|<font color="orange">Nutta.</font>]] </small> 17:21, 29 October 2015 (EDT) | |||
::::::In my mind, it looks worse to have the Sheik page inconsistent with the Link, Zelda and Ganondorf pages than to have a polished piece of concept art in the infobox. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 17:25, 29 October 2015 (EDT) | |||
:::::::It's inconsistent anyway since it isn't using official artwork while all the others are. I don't see how this is different from [[Toon Link]] not using TP artwork. <small><font color="black">---</font><font color="orange">Preceding unsigned comment added by</font> [[Special:MyPage|<font color="black">BOO</font>]]! <font color="orange">Or maybe</font> [[User:Nutta Butta|<font color="orange">Nutta.</font>]] </small> 17:29, 29 October 2015 (EDT) | |||
::::::::Because Toon Link doesn't have a TP-based design like the other 4 Zelda characters in Brawl/SSB4? Anyway, I don't think either of us are doing much to convince each other, so I think the right course of action is to hear what other users have to say. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 17:34, 29 October 2015 (EDT) | |||
:::::::::Yup, that was going to be my next comment. <small><font color="black">---</font><font color="orange">Preceding unsigned comment added by</font> [[Special:MyPage|<font color="black">BOO</font>]]! <font color="orange">Or maybe</font> [[User:Nutta Butta|<font color="orange">Nutta.</font>]] </small> 17:37, 29 October 2015 (EDT) | |||
::::::::::This is a concept art no a artwork, this is different. A concept art is before it is put into the final product. A artwork is to promote the final product. Sheik never appears in TP nor in the official promotion.[[User:Jf811|Jf811]] ([[User talk:Jf811|talk]]) 17:59, 29 October 2015 (EDT) | |||
It's now 3-1 in favor of OoT artwork. If no one else disagrees, I'll be changing it by the end of the day. <small><font color="black">---</font><font color="orange">Preceding unsigned comment added by</font> [[Special:MyPage|<font color="black">BOO</font>]]! <font color="orange">Or maybe</font> [[User:DatNuttyKid|<font color="orange">Nutta.</font>]] </small> 13:38, 30 October 2015 (EDT) | |||
:Aidan was repeating your argument, not agreeing with it. It's 2-1 and barely anyone has commented. There's no reason to rush it. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 14:08, 30 October 2015 (EDT) | |||
::He said he's jumping on it because he has similar thoughts and opinions, so I'd say unless he says otherwise that's an agreement. 3-1. And it's something as trivial as a picture. There's no need to drag it out. <small><font color="black">---</font><font color="orange">Preceding unsigned comment added by</font> [[Special:MyPage|<font color="black">BOO</font>]]! <font color="orange">Or maybe</font> [[User:DatNuttyKid|<font color="orange">Nutta.</font>]] </small> 14:10, 30 October 2015 (EDT) | |||
:::It's not "dragging it out" to want more voices heard total. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 14:13, 30 October 2015 (EDT) | |||
::::I say keep the concept art, it is more accurate for Brawl and Sm4ash design, and is of excellent quality. It also is the most "current" one we have since it was in Hyrule Historia. I think it is 3-2 for OoT, too close to make a decision. [[User:DekZek|<font color="Black">'''DekZek, '''</font><font color="Orange">'''The creature of your nightmares'''</font>]] [[File:Dekzeksig-Oct.png|20px|link=User talk:DekZek]] 14:25, 30 October 2015 (EDT) | |||
:::::I don't see how it being in Hyrule Historia makes it official. Hyrule Historia also had rather polished artwork of Ganondorf from the Oracle series, but it's not considered official. <small><font color="black">---</font><font color="orange">Preceding unsigned comment added by</font> [[Special:MyPage|<font color="black">BOO</font>]]! <font color="orange">Or maybe</font> [[User:DatNuttyKid|<font color="orange">Nutta.</font>]] </small> 14:37, 30 October 2015 (EDT) | |||
::::::This whole argument hinges on your definition of "official artwork". You defined it as artwork to "promote the final product", whereas I'm using it in the context of "published in Nintendo-licensed material". Nintendo published Hyrule Historia. As I said, I agree that concept art is usually not preferred because of its rougher nature compared to art used in promotional contexts, but we know for a fact that this is the source and there's no "promotional"-level versions of this art to use instead. So why not use it? [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 14:54, 30 October 2015 (EDT) | |||
:::::::I might agree if there were no alternative (i.e. for Purlo). However, Sheik has artwork that corresponds to her design, even if it is slightly outdated. <small><font color="black">---</font><font color="orange">Preceding unsigned comment added by</font> [[Special:MyPage|<font color="black">BOO</font>]]! <font color="orange">Or maybe</font> [[User:DatNuttyKid|<font color="orange">Nutta.</font>]] </small> 14:56, 30 October 2015 (EDT) | |||
Anyone else? <small>---Preceding unsigned comment added by [[Special:MyPage|<font color="brown">a turkey</font>]]! Or maybe [[User:DatNuttyKid|DatNuttyKid]].</small> 12:50, 3 November 2015 (EST) | |||
Way to kick a horse when its down Nutta, you couldn't just leave it well enough alone could you? I vote '''Keep the TP Artwork'''. It may be concept art work, but its still ''official concept art'' work. Regardless of what the cry babies say, it follows the template of using art work that closely resembles a player characters current Smash design.<br>[[User:Ixbran|Ixbran]] ([[User talk:Ixbran|talk]]) 16:15, 14 May 2016 (EDT) | |||
:This topic settled months ago. There was no need to reply to it. [[User:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:Green; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px green">'''Disaster'''</span> <span style="color:Blue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px blue">'''Flare'''</span>]] [[File:Disaster Flare signature image.png|20px]] ''[[User talk:Disaster Flare|<span style="color:SkyBlue;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px skyblue">(talk)</span>]]'' 16:19, 14 May 2016 (EDT) | |||
::My bad, I tend to stop coming to this wiki for set periods of time, so when I checked here I had thought it was still recent. Sorry for that.<br>[[User:Ixbran|Ixbran]] ([[User talk:Ixbran|talk]]) 20:47, 24 May 2016 (EDT) | |||
=="Gender dispute"== | |||
Do we really need several paragraphs talking about Sheik's gender? BubzieBobkat brought this up earlier. The whole thing is seriously outdated and kind of makes a mountain out of a molehill, and it's kind of demeaning to have a "gender dispute" be a major part of her character description. Furthermore, it gives an inordinate amount of focus what is/was largely only an issue within stringent parts of the fanbases, and not official info. The section could basically be truncated to "Sheik is occasionally assumed to be male or a male persona of Zelda, but it is the official stance of Nintendo that Sheik is female, just as Zelda is." Or something along those lines. ~ [[User:StrawberryChan|<span style="color: #e68;">'''StrawberryChan'''</span>]] ([[User talk:StrawberryChan|talk]]) 20:43, November 5, 2020 (EST) | |||
:Agreed. Even something like if Meta Knight is the same species as Kirby (which arguably has more modern discussion) is condensed into one sentence on his page. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 21:45, November 5, 2020 (EST) | |||
:I agree as well. It only needs 1, maybe 2 sentences worth of notice. <font face="Trebuchet MS">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#0000a5">Blue</span>]] [[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:#0000a5">Ninjakoopa</span>]]</font> 16:50, November 12, 2020 (EST) | |||
::The final paragraph (detailing how ''Ultimate'' uses different pronouns in different instances) may be worth keeping since it's more directly relevant to ''Smash'', but I'm inclined to agree that the rest of it can be condensed. --[[User:PeabodySam|PeabodySam]] ([[User talk:PeabodySam|talk]]) 17:46, November 12, 2020 (EST) | |||
:::Yeah, that'd be fine in my eyes as well. ~ [[User:StrawberryChan|<span style="color: #e68;">'''StrawberryChan'''</span>]] ([[User talk:StrawberryChan|talk]]) 20:25, November 12, 2020 (EST) | |||
:I take it the long section is because Smash partially resulted in and is embroiled in the debate. That being said, that hardly warrants its own section, let alone several paragraphs, and not on SmashWiki where most of the cited info is hardly relevant. Otherwise, we should do the same thing on Birdo's page, and that just feels dumb. - [[User:EndGenuity|EndGenuity]] ([[User talk:EndGenuity|talk]]) 18:03, November 12, 2020 (EST) | |||