Editing Template talk:Special Moves

Can someone with more experience in making templates that include if statements help me fix this? &ndash; [[User:EPX2|<b><i>EP</i></b>]] <small>([[User talk:EPX2|Talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/EPX2|Edits]])</small> 07:40, January 20, 2008 (EST)

Ask King M [[User:Crystal lucario|~Crystal_Lucario]] 09:21, January 20, 2008 (EST)

== "why did you do that? This is fine" ==

:''Moved from [[User talk:Megatron1]], re: [http://www.ssbwiki.com/Template:R.O.B._Special_Moves?diff=333691&oldid=333690]
Approximately six reasons:
#Things are a mess right now with some {{t|Special Moves}}, some <nowiki>{{Specialmoves}}</nowiki> and some hardcoded "(Character) Special Moves" templates. 
#Notice how <nowiki>{{Link Special Moves}} and {{Meta Knight Special moves}}</nowiki> currently have {{t|delete}}s on them as redundant with {{t|Special Moves}} [neither of which was tagged by me]. Clearly others don't consider stuff fine as-is.
#I had to hack together {{t|Multiple Special Moves}} earlier because the hardcoded templates simply don't stack by themselves. That's not a permanent solution.
#All of the (character) Special Moves templates have redirects in them. Fixing those redirects will take yoinks. Changing to a central version (which already exists!) will both fix that for now and make fixing them trivial in future if it comes up again.
#Notes on "Final Smashes are Brawl-only" and "Side special moves aren't in SSB64" are implemented in a godawfully-ugly way in the hardcoded templates just now, and fixing those will also be easier with a central template. [I picked R.O.B. for the first go because he's simpler - {{t|Special Moves}} will need to be tweaked to incorporate those notes]
#It's something of an interim step - later, I'd like to move to <nowiki>{{Special Moves|character=(X)|game=(optional)}}</nowiki>. Again, that becomes easier to do if everything's already pointed at {{t|Special Moves}}.
- [[User:Reboot|Reboot]] ([[User talk:Reboot|talk]]) 19:00, 22 November 2010 (EST)
:I'll currently stop my capitalization purge. However, have you recieved any support or oppose for something like this?--<span style="font-family:Forte">[[User:Megatron1|<span style="color:maroon">Mega</span>]][[User talk:Megatron1|<span style="color:silver">Tron1</span>]][[User:Megatron1/Laughology|<span style="color:blue">XD</span>]]</span>[[File:Decepticon.png|20px|:p]] 19:01, 22 November 2010 (EST)
::Given that an admin had plonked {{t|delete}}s on <nowiki>{{Specialmoves}}, {{Link Special Moves}} and {{Meta Knight Special moves}}</nowiki>, I presumed this had all been had out already and it was just waiting for someone to get round to actually ''doing'' it given the Wikia mess. - [[User:Reboot|Reboot]] ([[User talk:Reboot|talk]]) 19:11, 22 November 2010 (EST)

I was planning on replacing all the templates with {{t|Special Moves}} (for the reasons given above) but got sidetracked with all my other stuff. If people start replacing the individual templates with this one, then we can get rid of them and everything will be just better. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Data Node|Data Node]] 19:40, 22 November 2010 (EST)
:The reason I was reluctant to jump straight to plonking down {{t|Special Moves}} on each page is that you move the "data drift" from the labels (Side special move, etc) to the actual data - for instance, <nowiki>{{Link Special Moves}}</nowiki> is transcluded on eight separate pages [including each individual move listed]. It doesn't make that much sense to have to edit those later on in eight separate pages - which end up rendered in slightly different ways or linking to different redirects! - if you can enter them once and once only. Entering <nowiki>{{Special Moves|each=individual|move=and so on}}</nowiki> ''on  <nowiki>{{Link Special Moves}}</nowiki>'' standardises both sets of data at centralised locations until a major rewrite of {{t|Special Moves}} to incorporate that data into the template itself can be countenanced. - [[User:Reboot|Reboot]] ([[User talk:Reboot|talk]]) 20:01, 22 November 2010 (EST)
::Part of the reason I made this in the first place was so we could have the required dissonance to put Boomerang as Link's neutral special on Link (SSB), but as his side special on Link (SSBM) and Link (SSBB), and as both on the Boomerang page itself; without having to do shoehorns like "Brawl only". [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Data Node|Data Node]] 20:26, 22 November 2010 (EST)

Wait, you want to put all the special move data into a single template? So you'd put in a name and a game and get out all the moves? I can do that in an hour or two. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Data Node|Data Node]] 20:59, 22 November 2010 (EST)
:Pretty much. ([http://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=User:Reboot/Sandbox&oldid=333784 Here's the example page I was working on, subst'ed and manually tweaked to show what I meant].).
:And if you can do it, then please would you :).  - [[User:Reboot|Reboot]] ([[User talk:Reboot|talk]]) 21:24, 22 November 2010 (EST)
::Nice timing, got a highly-functional version set up [[User:Toomai/Garage|here]]. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Data Node|Data Node]] 21:26, 22 November 2010 (EST)
:::[http://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=User:Reboot/Sandbox&oldid=333788 Looks pretty good] :). The only points I can pick up on are:
:::#Probably render which game it is in the header (plug in SSBM, get "Mario's Melee Special Moves" rather than "Mario's Special Moves"
:::#How you can plug in <nowiki>{{User:Toomai/Garage|char=Dr. Mario|game=SSB}} & {{User:Toomai/Garage|char=Dr. Mario|game=SSBB}}</nowiki> and have stuff pop up - it should probably either not render at all, or give some sort of "Doesn't appear in this game" message;
:::#Related, <nowiki>{{User:Toomai/Garage|char=Dr. Mario}}</nowiki> probably shouldn't render a Final Smash line, since there's no data for that field; and
:::#How the (SSB)/(SSBM)/(SSBB) notes are displayed for <nowiki>{{User:Toomai/Garage|char=Mario}}</nowiki> (I'd prefer unbolded and small to bold/superscript), but this one is pretty trivial :).
:::And that's about it! - [[User:Reboot|Reboot]] ([[User talk:Reboot|talk]]) 21:43, 22 November 2010 (EST)
::::#That's easy, although I don't think it'd be necessary, since in theory the template would only appear on special move pages (therefore covering all games) or on the character pages (therefore having the relevant game already obvious by the time you scroll down to it).
::::#That would be annoying - we can't use "and" or "or" logic, so we'd have to apply a switch that works on one of char or game and then do it again for each of them (i.e. big o' mess). On the other hand it's a very weak problem (it can't be used without being wrong and removed anyway) that I don't really consider worth fixing.
::::#True, and it'd be easier to fix than #2, but again I'm not sure it's worth fixing. We can always tell it to go into SSBM mode and it'll hide it with no side effects (which wouldn't be possible if we fixed #1).
::::#Tried it and I agree it looks better; changed. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Data Node|Data Node]] 21:54, 22 November 2010 (EST)
:::::#Fair enough.
:::::#Okay, I wasn't quite sure whether boolean logic was supported or not. If not, you're right, not worth it.
:::::#Well, this would just be an <nowiki>{{#if:...}}</nowiki>, right? If so, I think enough characters were dropped for ''Brawl'' to make this one worth changing. - [[User:Reboot|Reboot]] ([[User talk:Reboot|talk]]) 22:08, 22 November 2010 (EST)

===Filled out===
[http://www.ssbwiki.com/index.php?title=User:Reboot/Sandbox&oldid=334236 Filled out a copy of Toomai's version of the template]. Any obvious problems before I copy it over? - [[User:Reboot|Reboot]] ([[User talk:Reboot|talk]]) 00:06, 25 November 2010 (EST)
:The biggest concern is capitalization. Fix that. You should be fine to go after that.--<span style="font-family:Forte">[[User:Megatron1|<span style="color:maroon">Mega</span>]][[User talk:Megatron1|<span style="color:silver">Tron1</span>]][[User:Megatron1/Laughology|<span style="color:blue">XD</span>]]</span>[[File:Decepticon.png|20px|:p]] 00:10, 25 November 2010 (EST)
::I am also curious as to why for the removed characters, you have a 2nd template for them even though they do not need one.--<span style="font-family:Forte">[[User:Megatron1|<span style="color:maroon">Mega</span>]][[User talk:Megatron1|<span style="color:silver">Tron1</span>]][[User:Megatron1/Laughology|<span style="color:blue">XD</span>]]</span>[[File:Decepticon.png|20px|:p]] 00:12, 25 November 2010 (EST)

==Re: "less haphazard order/removing options that should never be used or necessary/adding commonly used abbreviations"==
The reason I had some long versions in there (e.g. |Peach|Princess Peach=*) was that the template uses has "char Special Moves" in the title. So if you have "char=GW" (as you added), that would leave it as "GW Special Moves".
[I fully admit the original order was haphazard though] - [[User:Reboot|Reboot]] ([[User talk:Reboot|talk]])
:GW for Mr. Game & Watch is admittedly the least-used/least-needed abbreviation. That said, if someone sees a template labelled "DK's Special Moves", "ZSS's Special Moves", or "Dedede's Special Moves", I don't think there will be any confusion. I removed the long options ("Samus Aran" etc) because this template isn't (and shouldn't be) used on the pages where we refer to the characters by such names. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Data Node|Data Node]] 23:50, 27 November 2010 (EST)

== Game distinction suggestion ==

Maybe we could use icons instead of abbreviations in parentheses? I think it would look nicer, as well as more compact. - <font face="lucida handwriting,segoe script">Ceci n’est pas un [[User:Smiddle|Smiddle]].</font> 05:46, 9 April 2014 (EDT)

I have made a complete overhaul of this template, which incorporates icons and makes it more clear which moves are unknown/unconfirmed as of this time. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Undirigible 17:14, 16 April 2014 (EDT)

:On a related note, maybe the icons should link to the character's pages instead of the games. &ndash; [[User:Smiddle|Smiddle]] 02:07, 29 November 2014 (EST)

== Is it relevant to have moves from other games? ==

Well to clarify, if someone is reading Mario's Brawl profile, do they really need to see his Melee specials? No, they'd go to his Melee profile for those moves. Anyway, I was trying to make it so that it would be game dependent, but I messed up somewhere. I think I'd try the sandbox first. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 01:26, 20 April 2014 (EDT)
: The template doesn't appear on any character page. - <font face="lucida handwriting,segoe script">Ceci n’est pas un [[User:Smiddle|Smiddle]].</font> 05:03, 20 April 2014 (EDT)
:Yeah this template should only be appearing on the special move pages themselves, where it is relevant to show the games each move is in. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Quintonic 09:57, 20 April 2014 (EDT)
:Well okay the template is ''currently'' on a bunch of character pages, but that's only because those pages have yet to have {{t|MovesetTable}} added. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Aurum 10:03, 20 April 2014 (EDT)

Sorry, I've seen some characters with the special moves template. I'll try to replace them with the moveset table. [[User:SeanWheeler|SeanWheeler]] ([[User talk:SeanWheeler|talk]]) 12:24, 20 April 2014 (EDT)

== SSB4 specials ==

Should all of their specials be in this template, or just the default variants? - <font face="lucida handwriting,segoe script">Ceci n’est pas un [[User:Smiddle|Smiddle]].</font> 05:29, 27 July 2014 (EDT)
:Probably just the defaults. The customized moves can be in a seperate one. [[User:FirstaLasto|<font color="pink">♡</font>'''Firsta'''Lasto<font color="pink">♥</font>]] 11:27, 27 July 2014 (EDT)

We [[Forum:Organization of special move variations|discussed elsewhere]] that most variant special moves shouldn't have separate pages, so linking to them in this template is pointless. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The SMASH-GINEER 11:29, 27 July 2014 (EDT)
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 We [[Forum:Organization of special move variations|discussed elsewhere]] that most variant special moves shouldn't have separate pages, so linking to them in this template is pointless. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The SMASH-GINEER 11:29, 27 July 2014 (EDT)
-== Palutena and Mii Fighters ==
-Using the current template, it would be difficult to make the twelve special moves of characters like Palutena look nice when and if they returned. Could we tweak the template (or maybe make a new one) to allow more rows for those characters specifically without affecting the other characters? [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: lime">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]]) 19:05, 20 May 2015 (EDT)
-== Ice Climbers ==
-Is there a way this template (and {{t|MvSubNavBase}}) can be coded to correctly spell "Climbers's" as "Climbers'"? <span style="font-family:Formata Regular">[[User:RickTommy|<span style="color:red">Rick</span>]][[User talk:RickTommy|<span style="color:green">Tommy</span>]]</span> 21:17, January 23, 2021 (EST)
-:Using #switch should work. Change <code><nowiki>'s</nowiki></code> to <code><nowiki>'{{#switch:{{{char|Character}}}|Ness|Lucas|Samus|Dark Samus|Zero Suit Samus|Ice Climbers=|#default=s}}</nowiki></code>. Swap the default char value to Mario on the other one for consistency. These are important templates so I'm not sure if I should do it or wait for an admin. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 21:38, January 23, 2021 (EST)
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