Editing Template talk:MovesetTable

Something really weird happened with those last two changes. Look at [[Link (SSBM)#Ground attacks|Link's]]. The <nowiki>{{{neutralname}}}</nowiki> and <nowiki>{{neutraldesc}}}</nowiki> I understand, but the ftilt block moved up oddly. [[User:Ryxis|Ryxis]] ([[User talk:Ryxis|talk]]) 23:49, 30 March 2014 (EDT)
:Fixed. Someone put that Link has 4 neutral attacks, which is wrong (should be 3 plus infinite), and the template didn't know what to do with it. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Ghostbuster 00:06, 31 March 2014 (EDT)

== Grab ==

On every page, the template displays the Grab name as {{{grabname}}} and the description as {{{grabdesc}}}. Can this be removed? [[User:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Awesome'''</span>]] [[User talk:Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''Cardinal'''</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ac2k|<span style="color: red;">'''2000'''</span>]] 16:31, 22 June 2014 (EDT)
:Fill them in, that'll get rid of them. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Emissary 16:59, 22 June 2014 (EDT)

==A bit of a problem==
I was busy fixing the <code><nowiki>[[Thunder]]</nowiki></code> links to <code><nowiki>{{b|Thunder|Pokémon}}</nowiki></code>, and when I reached "Pikachu (SSB)", I tried changing the "dsname" to <code><nowiki>Thunder (Pokémon)|Thunder</nowiki></code> to emulate the same thing, but it didn't work. When we add moveset tables for Link (SSBB), Young Link (SSBM), etc. etc., the same thing will happen. How can I fix this?<font face="sand">[[User:Qwerty|<font color="#04FE6D">Qwerty</font>]] [[User talk:Qwerty|<font color="#66CC2A">da</font>]] [[Special:Logout|<font color="#08CFCC">beast</font>]]</font> [[File:Nessytrewq.jpg|16px]]  01:22, 19 July 2014 (EDT)
:You can fix that for now by using {{T|!}} instead of |, but yes there's probably a better way. I'll look for one. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Cloronic 08:54, 19 July 2014 (EDT)
::Okay it's now possible to (for example) specify <code>|dsname=Thunder|dspage=Thunder (Pokémon)</code>. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Jiggy 09:13, 19 July 2014 (EDT)
:::Alright, thanks.<font face="sand">[[User:Qwerty|<font color="#04FE6D">Qwerty</font>]] [[User talk:Qwerty|<font color="#66CC2A">da</font>]] [[Special:Logout|<font color="#08CFCC">beast</font>]]</font> [[File:Nessytrewq.jpg|16px]]  14:18, 19 July 2014 (EDT)

== Names ==

Can we please have this edited to make the name section optional, and blank if none is entered, for all moves? [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 23:05, 1 December 2014 (EST)

== No customs for downloadable characters ==

If someone is willing to wrestle with the wikicode, I think it would be nice to make the rows for custom specials not appear if a SSB4 characters lacks them (like all downloadable characters). --[[User:Menshay|Menshay]] ([[User talk:Menshay|talk]]) 18:23, 1 July 2015 (EDT)
:Alternatively, we could just make a clone of this template for them that removes those rows. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 18:48, 1 July 2015 (EDT)
:I think I can figure something out, but that first requires the decision: will the controlling parameter be called "hascustoms" or "nocustoms"? [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Rainbow 18:52, 1 July 2015 (EDT)
::maybe "customs"? We could have boolean values. [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: lime">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]]) 19:18, 1 July 2015 (EDT)
:::More to my point, we need to pick whether "yes" or "no" is the default. And because it should be "no" for most games but "yes" for the one where it matters, I don't know what it should be in the end. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Riotous 19:23, 1 July 2015 (EDT)
::::Probably no, then. Changing 51 tables is easier than changing 80. [[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: lime">'''Nyargle'''</span><span style="color: orange">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Nyargleblargle|Talk]]) 19:31, 1 July 2015 (EDT)

== Move-type links fail on character pages ==

Because the links to move-types (e.g. Neutral aerial, Up Smash) are relative to the page in which the MovesetTable is set, they link to nonexistent pages. To remedy this, I attempted going through each subtable of the MovesetTable (e.g. [[Template:MovesetTable/Tilts]]) and fixing the links by removing the initial forwardslash which causes them to mis-link. However, these changes (which did fix problem I have described) were reverted. I am posting here in hopes to see why, and if there is another issue that the solution I have proposed might give rise to, discuss how both issues might be resolved. [[User:Verxix|Verxix]] ([[User talk:Verxix|talk]]) 00:07, 14 August 2015 (EDT)
:The pages being linked to are supposed to exist (eventually), going to pages like [[Ganondorf (SSBM)/Up tilt|this]]. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Quiet 00:09, 14 August 2015 (EDT)

== Proposal on the Addition of Columns ==

Start-Up, Hitbox Active, First-Actionable-Frame, Angle, Base Knockback, Knockback Growth should be columns added to the moveset table, if I'll be honest. I'll even go out of my way to put in most of, if not all, of these things in their individual columns, if added. I think it would be a nice addition so people can get more of a glimpse of how powerful or weak attacks may be, how fast they are, etc. Any thoughts?

[[Special:Contributions/75.66.17.17|75.66.17.17]] 17:59, 24 October 2017 (EDT)
:Part of the point of this table is to be minimal in technical data. All the in-depth numbers are for the moveset subpages. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Yellow 19:58, 24 October 2017 (EDT)
:Yeah I am going to have to agree with Toomai here. This would take up way too much space on the table and would be confusing for the entry level players whom these tables are intended for. The only thing we possibly ''could'' do is add columns for bkb and kbg (or fixed kb as the case may be) as knockback is more important than damage output anyway...but the problem with that is the fact that each hit of each move typically has more than one hitbox with more than one different knockback value(s) and angles. This is a problem already for listing damage output, but this would be many times worse. It would get far too dynamic far too fast. <span style="font-family:Chiller;font-size:18px;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #000">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#d50">Serpent</span>]] [[File:SKSigHalloween.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#d50">King</span>]]'''</span> 20:59, 24 October 2017 (EDT)
:Link's Melee Spin Attack is a perfect example of what I mean here. The move has 2 forms, a grounded form and an aerial form. The grounded form has 3 hitboxes, each with different knockback and angle values, and they ''decay'' (I think with each spin (6 spins)), so that's 18 (x3 for bkb, kbs, angle) values already. Then the aerial form has 4 hitboxes per hit, and there are 5 hits, meaning take another 20 (x3 again) values right there. So in the end that one move would end up having 38 values just for knockback, which is just unrealistic. Even if you ignored the decay on the grounded one, that's still 3 for the grounded and 20 for the aerial...and 23 values is still unrealistic and overly complex. <span style="font-family:Chiller;font-size:18px;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #000">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#d50">Serpent</span>]] [[File:SKSigHalloween.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#d50">King</span>]]'''</span> 21:19, 24 October 2017 (EDT)
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@@ Line 9: / Line 9: @@
 ==A bit of a problem==
 I was busy fixing the <code><nowiki>[[Thunder]]</nowiki></code> links to <code><nowiki>{{b|Thunder|Pokémon}}</nowiki></code>, and when I reached "Pikachu (SSB)", I tried changing the "dsname" to <code><nowiki>Thunder (Pokémon)|Thunder</nowiki></code> to emulate the same thing, but it didn't work. When we add moveset tables for Link (SSBB), Young Link (SSBM), etc. etc., the same thing will happen. How can I fix this?<font face="sand">[[User:Qwerty|<font color="#04FE6D">Qwerty</font>]] [[User talk:Qwerty|<font color="#66CC2A">da</font>]] [[Special:Logout|<font color="#08CFCC">beast</font>]]</font> [[File:Nessytrewq.jpg|16px]]  01:22, 19 July 2014 (EDT)
-:You can fix that for now by using <nowiki>{{!}}</nowiki> instead of |, but yes there's probably a better way. I'll look for one. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Cloronic 08:54, 19 July 2014 (EDT)
+:You can fix that for now by using {{T|!}} instead of |, but yes there's probably a better way. I'll look for one. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Cloronic 08:54, 19 July 2014 (EDT)
 ::Okay it's now possible to (for example) specify <code>|dsname=Thunder|dspage=Thunder (Pokémon)</code>. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Jiggy 09:13, 19 July 2014 (EDT)
 :::Alright, thanks.<font face="sand">[[User:Qwerty|<font color="#04FE6D">Qwerty</font>]] [[User talk:Qwerty|<font color="#66CC2A">da</font>]] [[Special:Logout|<font color="#08CFCC">beast</font>]]</font> [[File:Nessytrewq.jpg|16px]]  14:18, 19 July 2014 (EDT)
@@ Line 39: / Line 39: @@
 :Yeah I am going to have to agree with Toomai here. This would take up way too much space on the table and would be confusing for the entry level players whom these tables are intended for. The only thing we possibly ''could'' do is add columns for bkb and kbg (or fixed kb as the case may be) as knockback is more important than damage output anyway...but the problem with that is the fact that each hit of each move typically has more than one hitbox with more than one different knockback value(s) and angles. This is a problem already for listing damage output, but this would be many times worse. It would get far too dynamic far too fast. <span style="font-family:Chiller;font-size:18px;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #000">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#d50">Serpent</span>]] [[File:SKSigHalloween.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#d50">King</span>]]'''</span> 20:59, 24 October 2017 (EDT)
 :Link's Melee Spin Attack is a perfect example of what I mean here. The move has 2 forms, a grounded form and an aerial form. The grounded form has 3 hitboxes, each with different knockback and angle values, and they ''decay'' (I think with each spin (6 spins)), so that's 18 (x3 for bkb, kbs, angle) values already. Then the aerial form has 4 hitboxes per hit, and there are 5 hits, meaning take another 20 (x3 again) values right there. So in the end that one move would end up having 38 values just for knockback, which is just unrealistic. Even if you ignored the decay on the grounded one, that's still 3 for the grounded and 20 for the aerial...and 23 values is still unrealistic and overly complex. <span style="font-family:Chiller;font-size:18px;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px #000">'''[[User:Serpent King|<span style="color:#d50">Serpent</span>]] [[File:SKSigHalloween.png|16px|link=]] [[User talk:Serpent King|<span style="color:#d50">King</span>]]'''</span> 21:19, 24 October 2017 (EDT)
-== Ladder attacks ==
-Which subtemplate should we include the new ladder attacks in? [[File:Nyargleblargle.png|16px]][[User: Nyargleblargle|<span style="color:DarkRed">'''Nyargle</span>]][[User talk:Nyargleblargle|<span style="color: Goldenrod;">'''blargle'''</span>]] ([[Special:Contributions/Nyargleblargle|Contribs]]) 22:14, 8 December 2018 (EST)
-:I thought this was just using aerials while on ladders, not a new attack altogether. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Producer 22:22, 8 December 2018 (EST)
-== Adding frame data to the moveset tables ==
-Considering frame data is universal and varies significantly between movesets, it may be worth adding them. Tedious as it may be, it’s fairly helpful to have it here. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 23:00, 28 February 2019 (EST)
-===Support===
-.
-===Oppose===
-#Repeating from a previous section, the intent of this table is to be as minimal as possible, only displaying the most important number (damage dealt). Keep in-depth data to the moveset subpages. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Victorious 06:36, 1 March 2019 (EST)
-===Neutral===
-. On one hand, adding frame data wouldn’t hurt. On the other hand, it would be tedious having to edit over 200 pages to accomodate this, and considering how I only own Brawl, I definitely would not be able to add to this. [[User:Lou Cena|Lou Cena]] ([[User talk:Lou Cena|talk]]) 23:00, 28 February 2019 (EST)
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