Editing Talk:Olimar (SSB4)

==Final Smash==
In the tournament, it was revealed that Olimar retains his old final Smash [[End of Day]]

==the pikmin==
look very nice. also love the addition of the whistle in Olamars helmet. <br>[[User:Ixbran|Ixbran]] ([[User talk:Ixbran|talk]]) 07:11, 12 July 2013 (EDT)
:[[SW:TALK#Musings|Do not use talk pages to muse about the article subject]]. If you want to discuss Olimar in Smash 4, make a forum about it. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[Image: TyranitarMS.png ]] 08:00, 12 July 2013 (EDT)
::yea I like it too. --[[Special:Contributions/184.98.161.238|184.98.161.238]] 17:46, 10 April 2014 (EDT)

== OT's revert ==

"He was called "Pikmin and Olimar" on the Dojo too", you say. That's true. But nowhere in any form of official media has the character been called "Olimar" yet, so it's unofficial. We have an unofficial tag on [[Skyloft]], we can't just pretend Olimar is the official name yet. It's not like I'm asking for the page to be renamed, it's just an article icon. [[User:ToastUltimatum|{{Color|#ff8c00|'''Toast'''}}]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px|link=Special:Contributions/ToastUltimatum]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|{{Color|#01a3c4|'''ltimatum'''}}]][[File:Transparent Swadloon.png|26px]] 09:10, 12 July 2013 (EDT)
:You might as well argue that we should change the title of [[Super Smash Bros. 4]] to [[Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS]] because the term SSB4 isn't official nor has it ever been mentioned. [[SW:OFFICIAL|SmashWiki is not official]] ----- [[User:Conanshinichi|Conan]][[User talk:Conanshinichi|shinichi]] [[File:DrMarioHeadSSBM.png]] 11:54, 12 July 2013 (EDT)
::Clearly, you have misunderstood me. I am not proposing that we rename the article. When our articles use an unofficial title, we must display a purple Article Icon at the top-right of the article to show that the name we're using is unofficial. "Olimar", as of yet, is not the official name of the character. Currently, it is "Pikmin & Olimar". Therefore, we needed to add the Article Icon. This was reverted for what I find unacceptable reasons, so I brought up this discussion to respond to it. [[User:ToastUltimatum|{{Color|#ff8c00|'''Toast'''}}]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px|link=Special:Contributions/ToastUltimatum]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|{{Color|#01a3c4|'''ltimatum'''}}]][[File:Transparent Swadloon.png|26px]] 12:12, 12 July 2013 (EDT)
:::Oh, Ok then, I agree with you because SSB4 has that icon as well ----- [[User:Conanshinichi|Conan]][[User talk:Conanshinichi|shinichi]]  12:37, 12 July 2013 (EDT)
::::No, this argument is terrible. It's not like we're calling him pajama or something. He's been called "Olimar" in previous games and "Olimar" is still a portion of the name "Pikmin & Olimar". Also, this doesn't at all fit the usage of the unofficial lingo tag. It's for fan-made-up terms like [[priority]]. Last I checked, he's actually called "Olimar". <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 14:23, 12 July 2013 (EDT)
:Besides, "Olimar" is used in the game too, so that's still an official name. - <font face="lucida handwriting,segoe script">Ceci n’est pas un [[User:Smiddle|Smiddle]].</font> 16:25, 12 July 2013 (EDT)
::It's used in Brawl, so it's official on the Olimar (SSBB) article. All we have so far for SSB4 is Pikmin & Olimar, so as far as I'm concerned, that's his official name at the moment, whether it gets in the game or not. There is no proof that it will, so calling him Olimar is speculative. Again, it's not like I want the page renaming, it's just an unofficial term icon. [[User:ToastUltimatum|{{Color|#ff8c00|'''Toast'''}}]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px|link=Special:Contributions/ToastUltimatum]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|{{Color|#01a3c4|'''ltimatum'''}}]][[File:Transparent Swadloon.png|26px]] 16:31, 12 July 2013 (EDT)
:::It's the same character &ndash; I don't see how an official name could be restricted to one game. - <font face="lucida handwriting,segoe script">Ceci n’est pas un [[User:Smiddle|Smiddle]].</font> 16:36, 12 July 2013 (EDT)

:::::But the icon is misleading for the reasons I already explained. Your argument is based on the fact that we aren't calling it exactly word for word what the site is calling it and is somewhat [[SW:NOT|speculative]]. If it were a completely different name, I'd see your reasoning, but it's not. "Pikmin and Olimar" includes "Olimar" as part of it, therefore, it's not unofficial. Also consider how we deal with the Melee stages. [[Fountain of Dreams]] is technically named by the game as "Dream Land: Fountain of Dreams". Do we have an unoficial lingo tag on that page? No, because the name we use is the most relevant piece of the official name, as is the case here. And stop with the "it's not like I'm asking to rename the page"; that's irrelevant. It only matters why we should have the tag on the page, and clearly, we should not. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 16:39, 12 July 2013 (EDT)

We can leave the page where it is as a result of [[SmashWiki:SmashWiki is not official|SmashWiki is not official]], but by using the non-official name for something that has an official title, we should indicate that clearly with the unofficial name icon. If he's referred to as simply "Olimar" in the actual release of SSB4, then and only then should we remove the tag. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 17:02, 12 July 2013 (EDT)
:No, we should remove the tag now and move the page to "Pikmin & Olimar (SSB4)" and not use the unofficial name tag. There is no proof that the name used on the site is used on the game, as that wasn't the case for Brawl. And the name is not fucking unofficial; if he is called "Pikmin & '''''Olimar'''''", he is still called "'''''Olimar'''''". <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 17:10, 12 July 2013 (EDT)
::So splitting a name in half still makes it official? If we called the Wii Fit Trainer (SSB4) article "Trainer (SSB4)", would that still be official? Would "Popo (SSB4)" be an official name? The fact that the character from the ''Pikmin'' games is called Olimar means nothing, the playable character in SSB4, as far as we're concerned, is called '''Pikmin & Olimar''', so '''Olimar''' is a speculative and unofficial name, until the game itself refers to him as "Olimar" by itself, if it does at all. [[User:ToastUltimatum|{{Color|#ff8c00|'''Toast'''}}]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px|link=Special:Contributions/ToastUltimatum]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|{{Color|#01a3c4|'''ltimatum'''}}]][[File:Transparent Swadloon.png|26px]] 17:47, 12 July 2013 (EDT)
:::No because each of those are slightly different situations. More like if we called it "DK (SSBM)" instead of [[Donkey Kong (SSBM)]], it would still be official, but one is clearly the better name. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 18:10, 12 July 2013 (EDT)

==Second-person pronoun==
In one of the last pictures in the article, the caption reads, "You can clearly see his whistle and Hocotate Freight patch." "You" needs to be replaced by a third-person pronoun. I'd take care of that myself, but I am not allowed to edit the page. Could someone please do that for me? I'd really appreciate it! [[Special:Contributions/71.105.121.171|71.105.121.171]] 14:15, 24 August 2013 (EDT)

:Done. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 14:17, 24 August 2013 (EDT)
::On another note, you'd be able to edit the page if you made an account. It's worthwhile doing so, we have [[Help:Why create an account|a full help page]] explaining why. [[User:ToastUltimatum|{{Color|#ff8c00|'''Toast'''}}]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px|link=Special:Contributions/ToastUltimatum]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|{{Color|#01a3c4|'''ltimatum'''}}]][[File:Transparent Swadloon.png|26px]] 15:06, 24 August 2013 (EDT)

== Story Mode? ==

If you think about it, this could've been from a story mode seeing how the Pikmin aren't with Olimar http://www.ssbwiki.com/File:SSB4_-_Olimar_Screen-9.jpg <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:‎MegaMCAlly|‎MegaMCAlly]] ([[User talk:‎MegaMCAlly|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/‎MegaMCAlly|contribs]]) 01:56 1 September 2013</small>
:No, it really couldn't. Olimar is just cut out of the very zoomed in frame. The stage is clearly [[Garden of Hope]]. That's just any old match with Olimar and Kirby in it. [[User:ToastUltimatum|<font color="ff8c00">'''Toast'''</font>]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|<font color="01a3c4">'''ltimatum'''</font>]] 22:03, 31 August 2013 (EDT)

== Question about determining what counts as a Buff or Nerf ==

I have a sort of specific yet general question. First I need to give an example:<br>
Olimar's new up special lets him recover more safely than he could in Brawl. However, if he had retained Pikmin Chain, he would have been able to recover even more safely than with his new up special due to the new ledge mechanics of SSB4.<br>
Even assuming I'm wrong about that, the question is: in that situation, would it be considered a buff because its better than his brawl recovery, or a nerf because its worse than his brawl recovery move would have been in ssb4 had it been retained exactly the same way? [[User:FirstaLasto|<font color="pink">♡</font>'''Firsta'''Lasto<font color="pink">♥</font>]] 15:58, 17 August 2014 (EDT)
:Technically if you consider the Pikmin number nerf, his Pikmin chain would be worse in this game as well (due to the significantly shorter range). So I'd say it's a pretty straight buff. (I know it doesn't fully answer your question but still) [[User:Laikue|Laikue]] ([[User talk:Laikue|talk]]) 17:39, 17 August 2014 (EDT)
::You're right, though, I completely forgot about that when I gave my example. Still, the question stands as a general query. [[User:FirstaLasto|<font color="pink">♡</font>'''Firsta'''Lasto<font color="pink">♥</font>]] 16:45, 18 August 2014 (EDT)

== Alph ==

I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but should Alph get his own page, with a character table and everything, since he's a costume for Olimar? [[User:Tepig|Tepig]] ([[User talk:Tepig|talk]]) 21:25, 10 September 2014 (EDT)
:It's a complicated issue, since based on Zipzo's reports the Alph costumes get called differently by the announcer and so on. I'd personally advocate giving him a side-character page similar to [[Chrom]] or [[Dunban]] and leaving general references to the character slot to Olimar. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 21:28, 10 September 2014 (EDT)
::If Zipzo's claims proves true and the Alph costumes are called differently by the Announcer, then I suggest renaming the page to Olimar/Alph, since they're the same character. [[User: Rtzxy | <span style="color:darkorange;"> '''Rtzxy''' </span>]] [[File:Signature SmashBall.jpeg]] [[User talk: Rtzxy | <span style="color:darkblue;"> '''Smashing!''' </span>]] 21:41, 10 September 2014 (EDT)
:::I would very strongly oppose any change to this page's name. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 21:45, 10 September 2014 (EDT)
::::Fair enough. A side page, or at least a mention on Olimar's page, is also a good idea if you don't want to rename the page. [[User: Rtzxy | <span style="color:darkorange;"> '''Rtzxy''' </span>]] [[File:Signature SmashBall.jpeg]] [[User talk: Rtzxy | <span style="color:darkblue;"> '''Smashing!''' </span>]] 21:49, 10 September 2014 (EDT)
:::::Alph should certainly be mentioned on this page, the Pikmin universe template, etc. He just should be treated as having secondary importance, rather than primary or equivalent importance. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Comic Sans MS;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 21:53, 10 September 2014 (EDT)
::::::OK. [[User: Rtzxy | <span style="color:darkorange;"> '''Rtzxy''' </span>]] [[File:Signature SmashBall.jpeg]] [[User talk: Rtzxy | <span style="color:darkblue;"> '''Smashing!''' </span>]] 21:58, 10 September 2014 (EDT)
:::::::Soooo . . . Should we put Alph's "announcement" picture in the gallery? [[User:ScizorSteelix|<span style="color:red">Scizor</span>]][[User_talk:ScizorSteelix|<span style="color:gray">Steelix</span>]] 06:43, 11 September 2014 (EDT)
::::::::I think Alph should get his own page aal Dark Pit. Lucina has one and she shares a moveset with Marth. He's basically a separate character, just missing a CSS slot. [[User:RotomGuy|RotomGuy]] ([[User talk:RotomGuy|talk]]) 18:32, 12 September 2014 (EDT)

== Redundant Changes ==

The first change listed says:
''"Forward smash is stronger."''

But a later change claims:
''"Forward smash's reach has been extended.
''However, its KO potential and damage outputs have been reduced slightly."''


What's the point of the first note? It's just a less specific and helpful version of the latter, and it's even kind of misleading because it's actually "weaker" in terms of sheer power.




Also, this:

''"There are now indicators showing which Pikmin will be thrown next, allowing the player to know which attacks to use."''

and

''"The Pikmin at the head of the line has a player-coloured pointer above their head, as do Pikmin at a distance from Olimar."''


Are the same thing, except one is listed as a buff. Really wish I could edit this page sometimes.

--[[User:Robfire|Robfire]] ([[User talk:Robfire|talk]]) 00:29, 10 November 2014 (EST)

== Pikmin Can't Grab Items On 3DS ==

One last thing--I tested this, and no item can be grabbed by pikmin in any way, probably due to the fact that the 3DS pikmin AI is really spastic and flawed.
--[[User:Robfire|Robfire]] ([[User talk:Robfire|talk]]) 00:29, 10 November 2014 (EST)

:I added in all of this for you. A few notes, though:

:#The indicator is considered a change instead of an outright buff because it does not directly impact gameplay (such as damage or knockback output). 
:#In the future, try to collate your posts into one header; it makes the talk page a bit less messy.

:--- <font face="Pristina"><font size="3">''[[User:Monsieur Crow|Monsieur]] [[User_talk:Monsieur Crow|Crow]], Author Extraordinaire''</font></font>,  00:35, 10 November 2014 (EST)
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@@ Line 29: / Line 29: @@
 :Done. <span style="font-family:Triforce, sans-serif;">'''[[User:Dr. Pain 99|<font color=#008000>D<font color=#008019>o<font color=#008031>c<font color=#008049>t<font color=#008062>o<font color=#008080>rP</font>a</font>i</font>n</font>9</font>9</font>]]'''</span> 14:17, 24 August 2013 (EDT)
-::On another note, you'd be able to edit the page if you made an account. It's worthwhile doing so, we have [[SmashWiki:Why create an account?|a full help page]] explaining why. [[User:ToastUltimatum|{{Color|#ff8c00|'''Toast'''}}]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px|link=Special:Contributions/ToastUltimatum]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|{{Color|#01a3c4|'''ltimatum'''}}]][[File:Transparent Swadloon.png|26px]] 15:06, 24 August 2013 (EDT)
+::On another note, you'd be able to edit the page if you made an account. It's worthwhile doing so, we have [[Help:Why create an account|a full help page]] explaining why. [[User:ToastUltimatum|{{Color|#ff8c00|'''Toast'''}}]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px|link=Special:Contributions/ToastUltimatum]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|{{Color|#01a3c4|'''ltimatum'''}}]][[File:Transparent Swadloon.png|26px]] 15:06, 24 August 2013 (EDT)
 == Story Mode? ==
-If you think about it, this could've been from a story mode seeing how the Pikmin aren't with Olimar http://www.ssbwiki.com/File:SSB4_-_Olimar_Screen-9.jpg <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:MegaMCAlly|MegaMCAlly]] ([[User talk:MegaMCAlly|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/MegaMCAlly|contribs]]) 01:56 1 September 2013</small>
+If you think about it, this could've been from a story mode seeing how the Pikmin aren't with Olimar http://www.ssbwiki.com/File:SSB4_-_Olimar_Screen-9.jpg <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:‎MegaMCAlly|‎MegaMCAlly]] ([[User talk:‎MegaMCAlly|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/‎MegaMCAlly|contribs]]) 01:56 1 September 2013</small>
 :No, it really couldn't. Olimar is just cut out of the very zoomed in frame. The stage is clearly [[Garden of Hope]]. That's just any old match with Olimar and Kirby in it. [[User:ToastUltimatum|<font color="ff8c00">'''Toast'''</font>]] [[File:Wii U Logo Transparent.png|17px]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|<font color="01a3c4">'''ltimatum'''</font>]] 22:03, 31 August 2013 (EDT)
@@ Line 95: / Line 95: @@
 :--- <font face="Pristina"><font size="3">''[[User:Monsieur Crow|Monsieur]] [[User_talk:Monsieur Crow|Crow]], Author Extraordinaire''</font></font>,  00:35, 10 November 2014 (EST)
-== Incorrect Custom Move Names ==
-Both Throw and Order have incorrect custom move names.
-Throw:
-. Sticky Pikmin Throw
-. Tackle pikmin Thorw
-Order:
-. Order Tackle
-. Dizzy Whistle
-[[User:FatBlueHoudini|FatBlueHoudini]] ([[User talk:FatBlueHoudini|talk]]) 21:40, 6 December 2014 (EST)
-== Olimar exploit ==
-[https://games.yahoo.com/news/massive-exploit-found-wii-u-025300259.html|1 I found this] on Yahoo which shows Olimar being able to OHKO Fox through an exploit. [[:User:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|ZeldaStarfoxfan2164]] ([[User talk:ZeldaStarfoxfan2164|talk]]) is made in America  00:52, 21 February 2015 (EST)
-:That yahoo page is dead. Got another source? Might've been fake and removed after being bashed. [[User:Laikue|Laikue]] ([[User talk:Laikue|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Laikue|contribs]]) 01:10, 21 February 2015 (EST)
-::I found similar sources which is from [http://www.gamespot.com/articles/massive-exploit-found-in-wii-u-super-smash-bros/1100-6425405/ Gamespot] [[Special:Contributions/98.220.74.197|98.220.74.197]] 01:15, 21 February 2015 (EST)
-:::Ah, I see. I don't think it'll do much to competitive play, other than making Olimar completely broken against stupid Fox players who use that custom. And doubles, but even then, they could just ban Olimar + Fox w/Amplifying Reflector. I don't see a reason to mention it in the main article, but it'd make for a nice trivia point. [[User:Laikue|Laikue]] ([[User talk:Laikue|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Laikue|contribs]]) 01:25, 21 February 2015 (EST)
-::::Not only it works on Fox, but it works on other characters with [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ck9xVH3JKM reflectors] [[Special:Contributions/98.220.74.197|98.220.74.197]] 01:32, 21 February 2015 (EST)
-:::::Actually, since it seems to require Pikmin Tackle, they could easily just ban that against characters with reflectors, I still don't think it'll have much true effect on Competitive play. [[User:Laikue|Laikue]] ([[User talk:Laikue|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Laikue|contribs]]) 02:15, 21 February 2015 (EST)
-== Forward Smash Change ==
-I'm an Olimar main, and I've noticed that in the most recent update Olimar's forward smash can once again throw Pikmin off the stage like it did in Brawl. Idk what update this came with though, or what to classify it as (buff, nerf, notice, whatever). [[User:AeroBlaze777|AeroBlaze777]] ([[User talk:AeroBlaze777|talk]]) 21:13, 8 October 2015 (EDT)
-== Olimar and his Pikmin ==
-Should him having less pikmin be a buff, nerf, or simply a change [[User:64MeleeBrawl4Ultimate|64MeleeBrawl4Ultimate]] ([[User talk:64MeleeBrawl4Ultimate|talk]]) 20:24, April 19, 2020 (EDT)
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