Editing Talk:List of major tournaments

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:'''Full support''' as well, same thing applies to the category splitting proposal. National has been a confusing term and will only cause more confusion inside the Smash community if we continue to use this term. [[File:Grand Dad.png|23x20px]] [[User:NaughtyPigMario|<span style="color: red;">'''NPM'''</span>]]  [[User talk:NaughtyPigMario|''<span style="color: blue;">Morr!?</span>'']] [[File:NaughtyPigBoi.jpg|23x20px]] 05:37, June 12, 2022 (EDT)
:'''Full support''' as well, same thing applies to the category splitting proposal. National has been a confusing term and will only cause more confusion inside the Smash community if we continue to use this term. [[File:Grand Dad.png|23x20px]] [[User:NaughtyPigMario|<span style="color: red;">'''NPM'''</span>]]  [[User talk:NaughtyPigMario|''<span style="color: blue;">Morr!?</span>'']] [[File:NaughtyPigBoi.jpg|23x20px]] 05:37, June 12, 2022 (EDT)
== Removal of Upcoming Events ==
I come to this page for the purpose of finding upcoming events with high projected attendance to watch, and removing upcoming events (done 7/19) makes the page useless for that purpose. My 2 cents~ <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:24.30.93.245|24.30.93.245]] ([[User talk:24.30.93.245|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/24.30.93.245|contribs]]) 13:24, July 23, 2022 (EDT)</small>
:Based on Cookies and Creme's edit summary, it isn't possible to know if a tournament is a major or not until it happens/concludes. Adding tournaments on the assumption that it will be a major will just lead to extra edits to remove them when they turn out to not be majors. We do have a category for upcoming events ([[:Category:Upcoming events]]) if that helps. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 13:31, July 23, 2022 (EDT)
:The purpose of the page is to list what tournaments on the wiki are considered majors and supermajors. It is not supposed to be like a TV guide as to what tournaments you should watch, which if I were to be honest, you should know through literally any other site that has a ''Smash'' community. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 15:18, July 23, 2022 (EDT)
:The "majorness" of a tournament can be forecast in advance based on prize pool, previous tournament history (ex: CEO, Momocon, Super Smash Con) etc. If we want to keep it simple, include only Gold / Platinum SWT tournaments. Don't remove useful functionality / features in the name of nomenclature. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:24.30.93.245|24.30.93.245]] ([[User talk:24.30.93.245|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/24.30.93.245|contribs]]) 15:56, July 23, 2022 (EDT)</small>
::"If we want to keep it simple, include only Gold / Platinum SWT tournaments.".
::There are many Gold/Platinum events that are not majors (such as Ultra Hard Tournament, ESPECIALLY in Melee's case); likewise, there are many non-Gold/Platinum events that are majors (most notably GENESIS 8). This page is not intended to be used as a tournament calendar; we have similar rules set in place for the "List of largest Smash tournaments" page as well. [[User:PokemonMasterJamal3|PokemonMasterJamal3]] ([[User talk:PokemonMasterJamal3|talk]]) 16:12, July 23, 2022 (EDT)
::"The "majorness" of a tournament can be forecast in advance based on previous tournament history (ex: CEO, Momocon, Super Smash Con)"
:::And yet, CEO Dreamland 2020 was at best a super regional for most events; Super Smash Con: Fall Fest was not a major/supermajor for either ''Melee''/''Ultimate'' respectively; and the last 2 GENESIS tournaments for 64 didn't even reach super regional status; not to mention [all the tournaments that were cancelled or postponed due to the pandemic, [https://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_major_tournaments?action=history&offset=20201122071340%7C1501532& forcing us to remove each tournament from the list one by one]. While I understand there is merit using precedence, it's also not a 100% guarantee, especially when we don't know what the future holds.
::"If we want to keep it simple, include only Gold / Platinum SWT tournaments"
:::Yeah, {{Trn|Virtuocity Smash Open 2022}}, {{Trn|Ultra Hard}}, and {{Trn|Ultimate Tropical Arena}} are certainly majors, and I for sure am excited for {{Trn|Uprising 2022}}, the first ever ''Melee'' major in Asia since 2005. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 16:15, July 23, 2022 (EDT)
:My point is we can enforce standards for the inclusion of upcoming events or gut that functionality which seems like a Bad Thing™ from a user experience / SEO perspective for anyone who has come to expect that functionality from this page. Maybe a separate page for this would make sense -- but the Upcoming Events category page doesn't currently serve that purpose. Being the SSB Wiki site with no page for upcoming events seems like a kind of glaring feature limitation. Just trying to propose an alternative solution that doesn't involve the permanent removal of useful information. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:24.30.93.245|24.30.93.245]] ([[User talk:24.30.93.245|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/24.30.93.245|contribs]]) 16:36, July 23, 2022 (EDT)</small>
::There is no useful "functionality" in using this page to speculate what upcoming tournaments will be majors ([[SmashWiki is not speculative]]), and the wiki's purpose is to document '''what has already happened''', end of. If you want a "calendar", there are better places explicitly made for that purpose as you were already told, such as this [https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/wiki/events reddit page] and this [https://twitter.com/smashcalendar Twitter account], that also has its own website (can't link it here as its triggering the spam filter, but the account links it in its bio). Also start signing your comments if you're going to keep posting on talk pages. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[File: TyranitarMS.png ]] 17:01, July 23, 2022 (EDT)
::A list of upcoming events is "functionality". You can agree to disagree with me on whether this functionality is "useful".
Using established standards (tournament history, prize pools) to define which tournaments should be listed on such a page is not "speculative" (and has nothing to do with the help article you linked which talks about rumors and unreleased content).
CEO Dreamland 2020 and SSC: Fall Fest were side events; CEO Dreamland 2020 was the last major Smash event prior to pandemic; 64 is the oldest / most dead form of SSB. Y'all are reaching, seriously.
I'm out, GLHF~ <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:24.30.93.245|24.30.93.245]] ([[User talk:24.30.93.245|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/24.30.93.245|contribs]]) 17:25, July 23, 2022 (EDT)</small>
:''Using established standards (tournament history, prize pools) to define which tournaments should be listed on such a page is not "speculative" (and has nothing to do with the help article you linked which talks about rumors and unreleased content).''"
:You were already given more than enough examples on how precedence means shit, tournaments underperform what people expected all the time, and we can't know the prize pool either in most cases until we get the actual attendance numbers... which we can't know until the tournament actually happens. And you read SW:NOT wrong if you're thinking if it's just about rumors and unreleased content, SmashWiki not speculating applies to all of its content. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[File: TyranitarMS.png ]] 18:05, July 23, 2022 (EDT)
== Stopping with the Orionrank definition madness ==
I don't know who needs to hear this but I'm getting sick of some events (particularly EU but also other events) with several top 30 players in attendance being removed (mainly in the Ult section) because someone put a guideline in place saying that it should be based off the Barnard's loop TTS
The Orionrank "majors" and "supermajors" have their own standalone definition of these terms based off an algorithm, and due to it being an algorithm there are clear anomalies and letting one person choose what is a major/supermajor based on an algorithm differs from the actual definition of majors and supermajors which are decided by a big number of people's standards
In short, I think we should be adding some of these anomalies to a certain and sensible degree <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Bigmeatthing|Bigmeatthing]] ([[User talk:Bigmeatthing|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bigmeatthing|contribs]]) 13:52, October 2, 2022 (EDT)</small>
:The wiki does not strictly follow the OrionStats TTS. OrionStats has a 2400 point threshold for majors, while the wiki generally has a 3000 point threshold. This is not strictly followed however; OrionStats has Riptide at a major with more than 3k points, yet the wiki does not recognize it as a major (because regardless of what the TTS says, it obviously wasn't). [[User:Stuart98|Stuart98]] ([[User talk:Stuart98|talk]]) 14:50, October 2, 2022 (EDT)
== Split ==
I think it's fairly obvious this page should be split into individual articles for each game, but I'll open a formal discussion for it here. This article has gotten very large (over 50,000 bytes currently), and with so many tournaments and subsections on here, it has gotten difficult to navigate, there has been several times I lost my way on this page when trying to find something specific. Not to mention that the repeated titling of the subsections leads to complications with trying to link to a specific year for a specific game from other articles (you can still do it, but a lot of wiki editors probably don't know how to do so). Are there any actual objections to this? <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[File: TyranitarMS.png ]] 06:48, June 18, 2023 (EDT)
:'''Support'''. This article could become an explination for what qualifies as a major or supermajor, and then list off subarticles for lists for individual games. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Jordan P.|Jordan P.]] ([[User talk:Jordan P.|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Jordan P.|contribs]]) 17:03, June 18, 2023 (EDT)</small>
:'''Support''', as in my opinion it would make life easier. To Jordan, we already have a brief explanation for that [[Tournament#Locations and sizes|here]], and I feel like adding anything else on this page would just be redundant or better cleared up on the linked page; it's best for this page to become something like a disambig. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 18:48, June 18, 2023 (EDT)
:'''Support''', this page is hard to navigate and too long. I agree with making it a disambig.--[[User:Hydreigonfan01|Hydreigonfan01]] ([[User talk:Hydreigonfan01|talk]]) 22:42, June 19, 2023 (EDT)

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