Editing Talk:Fobble

==Deletion==
Per the current policy, yes, this page should be deleted. It's very clear on that and there's no discussion there. However, I don't like the current policy and I feel that it needs another visit/discussion. When we first had the debate, Project M was just starting to be seen as a legitimate game, and since then it has actually trumped Brawl in popularity for competition (both at Apex and at all of the locals that I go to). I think we should reconsider the policy on Project M pages, as there is stuff (like this page) that needs to be documented, but which cannot be documented under its tyranny. It's kinda awkward only being allowed to document part of a game with character pages and nothing else like stage or technique pages. 

Most of the arguments presented on the debate page against independent Project M pages were simply that there isn't enough relevant information for PM techniques to warrant their own pages, but even if it's only a dozen or so pages that's not hurting anything. We don't need an article on modified stages, but there's new stages, which have enough information about them to fill an article. And there's new techniques like aerial glide tossing and fobbling that can also fill out a page. Not having pages on them seems silly, since it would leave us with a half documented game. [[User:Ryxis|Ryxis]] ([[User talk:Ryxis|talk]]) 09:08, 6 March 2014 (EST)
:If this technique is possible due to changing physics to match Melee's, why is it not also a Melee technique (which would make it okay under the current rules)? [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Quintonic 11:02, 6 March 2014 (EST)
::I think the move was changed between Melee and PM? I'm not sure. I don't play Ness. All I know is that I've never heard this term used with Melee, but I've heard it used a good deal with PM. [[User:Ryxis|Ryxis]] ([[User talk:Ryxis|talk]]) 14:29, 6 March 2014 (EST)
:::From what I can tell by the article, the base technique is "use a weak hitbox to cancel a strong one's knockback so you can hit with the strong one multiple times". That sounds like standard Home-Run Contest strategy to me, and so would apply in both SSBM and SSBB, even though people don't currently use the term "fobble" to refer to it. If the article could be rewritten to apply to this case as well I'd have no problem with it. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] Le Grand Fromage 14:46, 6 March 2014 (EST)
::::I think there should be a page called Techniques (PM) and Stages (PM) but thats just me. --[[User:TheLegendaryKRB|TheLegendaryKRB]] ([[User talk:TheLegendaryKRB|talk]]) 17:37, 6 March 2014 (EST)
I agree we should revise the article and clean it up so not only it is easier to understand, but so it is easier to find within a new Techniques (PM) page. If people want to find this information I think it should all be in one place, on this wiki. We really don't need a P:M centric wiki for small (yet important) topics and techniques like Fobbling. As you said Ryxis "new techniques like aerial glide tossing and fobbling .. can also fill out a page. Not having pages on them seems silly, since it would leave us with a half documented game." The overall goal of the wiki (if I'm not mistaken) is to document Smash in the best way possible and enable users of the wiki to find information on what they need in one simple place. In my mind, as with Ryxis', it would be foolish to segregate P:M's intricate parts onto other forums and wikis further complicating the user when they want to find this kind of information. [[User:TheAliami|TheAliami]] ([[User talk:TheAliami|talk]]) 21:46, 6 March 2014 (EST)
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 :::From what I can tell by the article, the base technique is "use a weak hitbox to cancel a strong one's knockback so you can hit with the strong one multiple times". That sounds like standard Home-Run Contest strategy to me, and so would apply in both SSBM and SSBB, even though people don't currently use the term "fobble" to refer to it. If the article could be rewritten to apply to this case as well I'd have no problem with it. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] Le Grand Fromage 14:46, 6 March 2014 (EST)
 ::::I think there should be a page called Techniques (PM) and Stages (PM) but thats just me. --[[User:TheLegendaryKRB|TheLegendaryKRB]] ([[User talk:TheLegendaryKRB|talk]]) 17:37, 6 March 2014 (EST)
-:::::I agree we should revise the article and clean it up so not only it is easier to understand, but so it is easier to find within a new Techniques (PM) page. If people want to find this information I think it should all be in one place, on this wiki. We really don't need a P:M centric wiki for small (yet important) topics and techniques like Fobbling. As you said Ryxis "new techniques like aerial glide tossing and fobbling .. can also fill out a page. Not having pages on them seems silly, since it would leave us with a half documented game." The overall goal of the wiki (if I'm not mistaken) is to document Smash in the best way possible and enable users of the wiki to find information on what they need in one simple place. In my mind, as with Ryxis', it would be foolish to segregate P:M's intricate parts onto other forums and wikis further complicating the user when they want to find this kind of information. [[User:TheAliami|TheAliami]] ([[User talk:TheAliami|talk]]) 21:46, 6 March 2014 (EST)
+I agree we should revise the article and clean it up so not only it is easier to understand, but so it is easier to find within a new Techniques (PM) page. If people want to find this information I think it should all be in one place, on this wiki. We really don't need a P:M centric wiki for small (yet important) topics and techniques like Fobbling. As you said Ryxis "new techniques like aerial glide tossing and fobbling .. can also fill out a page. Not having pages on them seems silly, since it would leave us with a half documented game." The overall goal of the wiki (if I'm not mistaken) is to document Smash in the best way possible and enable users of the wiki to find information on what they need in one simple place. In my mind, as with Ryxis', it would be foolish to segregate P:M's intricate parts onto other forums and wikis further complicating the user when they want to find this kind of information. [[User:TheAliami|TheAliami]] ([[User talk:TheAliami|talk]]) 21:46, 6 March 2014 (EST)
-::::Okay, I cleaned up the article some. Hopefully it's a bit clearer what it is now. (Though my main bone here is the ban on PM pages, not this specific article in general). [[User:Ryxis|Ryxis]] ([[User talk:Ryxis|talk]]) 07:54, 7 March 2014 (EST)
-::::Also, the technique is more than canceling a strong hit with a weak hit. It's specific to PK Fire. There aren't any other ways to produce a repeating hitbox and still be able to attack outside of teams battles. It's not in any other smash game. [[User:Ryxis|Ryxis]] ([[User talk:Ryxis|talk]]) 13:12, 7 March 2014 (EST)
-:::::From my perspective fobbling looks to be a more general variant of [[bat dropping]], so yes it is in other games. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Producer 13:24, 7 March 2014 (EST)
-::::::They have a similar vein to them, but they're not the same thing. It's not just more general bat dropping; it's its own technique. "PK Fire wobbling" (fobbling) is not in any other game, and techniques exclusive to HRC hardly apply to competitive multiplayer enough to warrant that techniques with the same end result not get their own page. [[User:Ryxis|Ryxis]] ([[User talk:Ryxis|talk]]) 13:39, 7 March 2014 (EST)
-Guys here's an idea. Since the the technique is dependent on a physics exploit, why don't we name the page after said physics exploit. In this case, the page could be named "Knockback stacking".--<span style="background-color:#6d84e1;border:3px solid silver">[[User:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:silver">'''Brian'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:1337 B33FC4K3|<span style="color:black">Don't try me!</span>]]</sup>[[File:Falco.gif|link=|27px]]</span> 01:24, 8 March 2014 (EST)
-:And while we're at it we can move all pages derivative of wavedashing to a single page called "slide." [[User:Ryxis|Ryxis]] ([[User talk:Ryxis|talk]]) 09:36, 8 March 2014 (EST)
-Bumping this. (Again I'd much rather a discussion on PM pages themselves, not on this specific technique and its ''minor'' similarities to other techniques). [[User:Ryxis|Ryxis]] ([[User talk:Ryxis|talk]]) 20:00, 9 March 2014 (EDT)
-:If you want a discussion on PM pages themselves, the have my opinion on it: We should only have the absolute bare minumum of PM-exclusive pages, which are the character pages, and only because because the PM page was pushing 85KB (3rd longest page; now it's only 35KB+ and top 30 or something). This page is less than 4KB (the actual content probably being less) and can be trivially merged into the main PM page under a "techniques" section (that doesn't even exist right now, and I'm not really sure why) or into a hypothetical page on knockback stacking as suggested above (because that's a real mechanic across the series that could deserve an article). [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[Image:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Metroid 10:18, 14 March 2014 (EDT)
-This debate has gone on for long enough. Either delete it asap or let it stay without the deletion tag. [[User:TheAliami|TheAliami]] ([[User talk:TheAliami|talk]]) 03:24, 16 May 2014 (EDT)
-:'''Strong Move''' Move to [[Knockback stacking]], per Brian. We already have In ''Melee'' and In ''Brawl'' sections, and as per [[Forum:The Project M debate#The veridict|The Project M debate]], we can add a small In ''PM'' section and be done.
-:Also, Ryxis brought up a point. We should create a page called "Pseudo-Wavedash" for wavedash techniques other than an actual wavedash. HOWEVER, I don't want to move the wavedash techniques there. [[User:Qwerty|<font face="sand" color="gold">Qwerty</font>]] [[User talk:Qwerty|<font face="sand" color="silver">the</font> <font face="sand" color="gold">amazing</font>]] [[File:NessHeadSSBB.png|16px]] 00:18, 18 May 2014 (EDT)
-:Anybody?[[User:Qwerty|<font face="sand" color="purple">Qwerty</font>]] [[User talk:Qwerty|<font face="sand" color="silver">the</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Qwerty|<font face="sand" color="red">lord</font>]] [[File:Nessytrewq.jpg|16px]] 20:59, 5 June 2014 (EDT)
-== >:( ==
-I OPPOSE THE MERGE BECAUSE IT'S USELESS AND "MUH HISTORY" IS JUST STUPID  i'm [[:User:Valehd|Valehd]] the smashbro pro!([[User talk:Valehd|talk]]) 18:58, 12 February 2015 (EST)
-==The Merge Reason==
-be more specific.  [[User:Smashworker101|Smashworker101]] ([[User talk:Smashworker101|talk]]) 23:36, 13 March 2015 (EDT)
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