Editing Forum:General proposals

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== Competitive Play Section Order ==

I think the "Tier placement and history" section should go above the "Notable players" section. Having the players' names listed first wouldn't help anyone who doesn't know how the character does competitively or even who the players are. [[User:Diddy Kongstar|<span style="font-size:10pt;background:#28282B;border:solid FF0000 5px;border-radius: 4px;padding:1px 3px;color:#FF0000">Diddy Kongstar</span>]] 20:30, March 12, 2023 (EDT)
:While I don't really mind either way, I disagree with your point since I feel like most players who look at this section want to know or care more about who a character's best players are rather than a character's competitive history. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 20:52, March 12, 2023 (EDT)
:I don't see how having the players listed before the competitive history won't help people know how the character does competitively, if anything knowing about the players first and their accomplishments will make it easier to understand their competitive history. From a readers' perspective, knowing who plays {{SSBU|Ness}} and their past accomplishments beforehand will let me better understand how good those players are when reading the character's competitive history, and overall gives more context to how good Ness really is. [[File:725.png|20px]] '''[[User:Omega Toad|<font color="red">Omega Toad,</font>]] [[User talk:Omega Toad|<font color="green">the Festive Shiny Litten.</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Omega Toad|<font color="red">(Seasons greetings!)</font>]]''' 21:11, March 12, 2023 (EDT)

== A page about every time Smash franchise referenced an upcoming release. ==

Thinking of every time the series made nods to future games that haven't release yet. It would be a fun experiment. [[User:XeroSchnee20|XeroSchnee20]] ([[User talk:XeroSchnee20|talk]]) 18:49, July 11, 2023 (EDT)
:This is too unspecific and purposeless to support. What notable instances are you referring to, and what would the page even be named? [[User:FunkyGrip2000|FunkyGrip2000]] ([[User talk:FunkyGrip2000|talk]]) 05:04, January 11, 2024 (EST)

== Remove game title mentions from ''Ultimate'' newcomers' special move page openings ==

I've been thinking about removing the mentions of game titles from the opening sentences of special moves used by newcomers from ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate''. This does ''not'' concern special moves that are changed over the course of the series and their respective replacements (e.g. [[Chain]] and [[Burst Grenade]]), and Young Link's [[Triforce Slash]] and Pichu's [[Volt Tackle]] are a whole other can of worms.

As an example, the opening sentence of Ridley's [[Plasma Breath]] would be changed from:
*'''Plasma Breath''' ({{ja|リドリーブレス|Ridorī Buresu}}, ''Ridley Breath'') is {{SSBU|Ridley}}'s [[neutral special move]] in ''[[Super Smash Bros. Ultimate]]''.
To:
*'''Plasma Breath''' ({{ja|リドリーブレス|Ridorī Buresu}}, ''Ridley Breath'') is [[Ridley]]'s [[neutral special move]].

As it is now, these mentions of ''Super Smash Bros. Ultimate'' come across as '''not uniform''' with moves from prior games, and '''redundant''' with the header icons also listing the subject's appearance(s). I had attempted similar removals in the past with the reason of future-proofing, but [[User talk:Black Vulpine#This|Black Vulpine shut that idea down]]. Still, even in the extreme case ''Ultimate'' is the last ''Smash'' game, I'd rather have all the special move pages look nice and uniform. Then again, I have a major case of OCD, and it's probably just a me problem... What do any of you think? [[User:ShootingStar7X|ShootingStar7X]] ([[User talk:ShootingStar7X|talk]]) 22:25, January 24, 2024 (EST)
:You have a point that this writing choice is inconsistent with prior series entries. I do not think removing it is beneficial for the individual pages, which is likely why Black Vulpine disagreed with the edits, but agree that being consistent across sections is ideal. Because this would be a widespread change, I think everyone would need to be on board with it (probably impossible), or would need to be officially added to the list of 'Things to do' etc.. [[User:FunkyGrip2000|FunkyGrip2000]] ([[User talk:FunkyGrip2000|talk]]) 17:49, February 16, 2024 (EST)
::At the same time, removing these title mentions wouldn't be ''un''beneficial — there's numerous other context clues on these move pages to prove that the moves and their users have only been in ''Ultimate''. '''EDIT:''' I don't think it would be that widespread, either — we're only looking at a modest handful of pages, and some of them already lack a title mention. [[User:ShootingStar7X|ShootingStar7X]] ([[User talk:ShootingStar7X|talk]]) 15:58, February 17, 2024 (EST)

I don't think there will be much, if any, pushback for going ahead with this. Looking at a random sample of move articles shows:
*If a character uses a move in every game, don't mention any games.
*If a character uses a move in one or two games, mention them.
**If that move has been in use since a particular game, saying "since [GAME]" is fine. [[Blaster (Fox)]], [[F.L.U.D.D.]]
**If that move has been in use for three or four games before changing in a particular game, saying "until [GAME]" is fine. [[Bomb (Link)]]
The exceptions to the above is the characters added in Ultimate (except Daisy who was grandfathered in with Peach's articles). Looking at the linked discussion with Black Vulpine, it seems the crux of the issue is the reasoning used. If you say something like "It is [CHAR]'s only [DIRECTION] special, no need to mention [GAME]" or "Simplifying/saving bytes. Don't need to mention every game" would be more acceptable. Heck, "Consistency with how other special move articles word the intro" would be fine, just not "future proofing" which gives no indication on what the edit is about. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 14:11, March 26, 2024 (EDT)
:Hey, saving bytes is a another good reason to remove these title mentions! Good catch. I should add that [[Hammer Flip]] does not follow the "one or two games" rule — that article should be corrected. Going back to Young Link's Triforce Slash and Pichu's Volt Tackle, should we apply the same logic to them? Their page openings are very clunky, and not mentioning ''Ultimate'' probably wouldn't create the false implication that these characters are in ''Brawl'' and ''Smash 4'' — the special move tables at the bottoms of the pages already account for this. [[User:ShootingStar7X|ShootingStar7X]] ([[User talk:ShootingStar7X|talk]]) 18:59, March 26, 2024 (EDT)
::I wouldn't use what I listed as hard rules, I only looked at like 10 articles. I think Hammer Flip's intro is fine. Volt Tackle can probably be reduced to "Pikachu's and Pichu's Final Smash". For Triforce Slash, I'm thinking "...serves as the Final Smash of Link (prior to ''Ultimate''), Toon Link, and Young Link". --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 19:05, March 26, 2024 (EDT)
:::Okie-dokie. Should we wait for more people to weigh in before we start enacting these changes? [[User:ShootingStar7X|ShootingStar7X]] ([[User talk:ShootingStar7X|talk]]) 19:33, March 26, 2024 (EDT)
::::I don't think it is necessary; the majority of articles are already the one way. BV was the only one who opposed and it was for the wording of the summary. And if anyone has issue with the particular wording of Volt Tackle, Triforce Slash, or similar, they're free to put their own spin on it--at worst they bring it up on a talk page. --[[User:CanvasK|CanvasK]] ([[User talk:CanvasK|talk]]) 19:37, March 26, 2024 (EDT)
:::::Well, that settles it, I guess. [[User:ShootingStar7X|ShootingStar7X]] ([[User talk:ShootingStar7X|talk]]) 20:05, March 26, 2024 (EDT)

I've finished removing every title mention in question. If anyone wishes to do any further improvements (e.g. adding links to the games elsewhere on the pages), be my guest. [[User:ShootingStar7X|ShootingStar7X]] ([[User talk:ShootingStar7X|talk]]) 21:14, March 26, 2024 (EDT)

==Missing Hitbox==

Soooo, I've noticed that on Cloud's page (SSBU) there are some missing hitboxes for his Blade Beam move (the actual projectile). Well, believe it or not, I actually found some on Ultimate Frame Data(here's the link: ultimateframedata.com/cloud). Just keep scrolling down, it even shows limit, air, and limit+air comparisons. [[User:YourTypicalSmasher96|YourTypicalSmasher96]] ([[User talk:YourTypicalSmasher96|talk]]) 15:34, April 16, 2024 (EDT)

==Make the Spirit Battles table significantly less ugly==
Why do the tables for spirit battles still look like this:

{{SpiritBattleHeader|inspiration=y|s=y|hideseries=y}}
|-
|620
|{{SpiritTableName|Caeda|iw=fireemblem|size=64}}
|•{{SSBU|Lucina}} {{Head|Lucina|g=SSBU|s=20px|cl=White}}<br>•{{SSBU|Marth}} {{Head|Marth|g=SSBU|s=20px|cl=Blue}}
|{{SpiritType|Shield}}
|13,500
|[[Temple]] ([[Battlefield form]])
|•Hazard: Heavy Wind
|•Dangerously high winds are in effect<br>•The enemy has increased move speed and reduced weight
|{{SSBUMusicLink|Fire Emblem|Story 5 Meeting}}
|'''Spirit Battle inspiration:'''
*The white Lucina represents Caeda, a princess who wears white armor with a red tunic and wields a bladed weapon in battle.
*The blue Marth minion is based on his appearance in the Archanea timeline, who serves as the leader of the party that Caeda belongs to.
*The stage and the battle conditions  reference Caeda's Pegasus Knight class, which features a high speed stat and allows her to fly over the battlefield.
*The music track is based on the recruitment theme song of ''Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon'', which plays when Caeda recruits another character into Marth's party.
----'''Other trivia:'''
*This spirit's Shield type and Jump ↑ ability further reference Caeda's Pegasus Knight class, which features a high resistant stat and allows her to fly over the battlefield.
|}

When they could so easily be changed to a much more readable format like this:

{{SpiritBattleHeader|s=y|hideseries=y}}
|-
|620
|{{SpiritTableName|Caeda|iw=fireemblem|size=64}}
|•{{SSBU|Lucina}} {{Head|Lucina|g=SSBU|s=20px|cl=White}}<br>•{{SSBU|Marth}} {{Head|Marth|g=SSBU|s=20px|cl=Blue}}
|{{SpiritType|Shield}}
|13,500
|[[Temple]] ([[Battlefield form]])
|•Hazard: Heavy Wind
|•Dangerously high winds are in effect<br>•The enemy has increased move speed and reduced weight
|{{SSBUMusicLink|Fire Emblem|Story 5 Meeting}}
|-
!colspan=10|''Inspiration''
|-
|colspan=10|'''Spirit Battle inspiration:'''
*The white Lucina represents Caeda, a princess who wears white armor with a red tunic and wields a bladed weapon in battle.
*The blue Marth minion is based on his appearance in the Archanea timeline, who serves as the leader of the party that Caeda belongs to.
*The stage and the battle conditions  reference Caeda's Pegasus Knight class, which features a high speed stat and allows her to fly over the battlefield.
*The music track is based on the recruitment theme song of ''Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon'', which plays when Caeda recruits another character into Marth's party.
----'''Other trivia:'''
*This spirit's Shield type and Jump ↑ ability further reference Caeda's Pegasus Knight class, which features a high resistant stat and allows her to fly over the battlefield.
|}

(Obviously can be tweaked, I just threw this up quickly to showcase the main point of including the HUGE wall of text in its own row instead of squished off to the very far right hand side) [[User:Shadow2|Shadow2]] ([[User talk:Shadow2|talk]]) 16:20, July 1, 2024 (EDT)
:Inviting you and whoever also want to talk about this to read the long discussion started years ago here: https://www.ssbwiki.com/Talk:List_of_spirits_(disambiguation)
:We didn't manage to convince enough people back then, I'm hoping you'll do better, because the spirit pages really need it. [[User:YoshiRyu|YoshiRyu]] ([[User talk:YoshiRyu|talk]]) 03:03, July 2, 2024 (EDT)
::Looks like part of the issue from those previous discussions is the proposers over-complicating their proposals. My proposal here is simple: Text is squished, make it not squish. [[User:Shadow2|Shadow2]] ([[User talk:Shadow2|talk]]) 03:39, July 2, 2024 (EDT)
:::Someone proposed pretty much the same thing you just did here. Personnally, I still thing the "inspiration" should be a entirely separate table, if for anything else, at least because spirits that don't have a battle can still have a trivia point about their type or effect or whatever. I didn't edit my [[User:YoshiRyu/Sandbox|sandbox]] since then, and it still display the end result, which still look nice to me to this day, if anyone want to have a look at it... [[User:YoshiRyu|YoshiRyu]] ([[User talk:YoshiRyu|talk]]) 06:43, July 2, 2024 (EDT)
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