Editing Forum:Ganondorf treated unfairly

{{Forumheader/Brawl Talk}}
This is coming from someone who originally thought Meta Knight was the best.
Ganondorf is my new favorite Brawl character. 
Ganondorf, with practice, easily defeats everyone in Brawl. His slowness seems to vanish after much use, and in its wake seems like powerful, quick attacks. He has many different strategies that are probably not all fully discovered. Even with a three-hit combo, enemies could quite possibly receive around fifty damage or more. I've seen very unpredictable DI and recovery as Ganondorf, and he is absolutely versatile when it comes to eliminating edge-guarding foes. He's a general devilish enemy on ground and, especially so, in the air.
Still though, he gets nothing but disrespect. I've been flamed and have seen people getting flamed for simply complimenting him at all. He's called the slowest character there is, he's rock bottom in the tier, his moveset and strong points are totally butchered in this Wiki's description of him, the list goes on. I want to promote respect towards Ganondorf, and that's why I'm asking you, the Smash community to help me with that cause. He's never gotten even a thousandth of the respect he deserves, and we need to work so that he gets that thousandth. Who's with me?! [[User:SSBC|SSBC]] ([[User talk:SSBC|talk]]) 23:00, March 25, 2010 (UTC)
:In my opinion, no character is "bad" or "sucks". It's all about how that character does against others, and that character's attributes that set him/her/it aside from other characters. All characters with flaws make up for them in some other way, but their low tier placement is because of their vulnerability to other characters and performance in tournaments. Ganondorf if slow, yes, but he is extremely powerful, with some of the strongest attacks in the game, including the [[Warlock Punch]]. His aerials are executed with surprising agility, he is heavy, and he "equipped" with a meteor smash. The tier list also isn't a matter of opinion, but of sheer fact, without any doubt. Also, your avatar suggests that you dislike Shippidge; I do too. He's not funny, his voice is annoying, and he is overall bad at directing machinima. Just... you know, letting you know, because... you know. <font face="Eurostile" size="3">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:blue">BNK</span>]]</font><sup> <nowiki>[</nowiki>[[Special:EditCount/Blue Ninjakoopa|E]]|[[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|T]]|[[Special:Contributions/Blue Ninjakoopa|C]]]</sup> 00:08, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
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Well said, Blue. Kind of. And I'm glad to have another Shippiddge Hater. Care to join my Youtube group? [[User:SSBC|SSBC]] ([[User talk:SSBC|talk]]) 03:03, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
:Sure. <font face="Eurostile" size="3">[[User:Blue Ninjakoopa|<span style="color:blue">BNK</span>]]</font><sup> <nowiki>[</nowiki>[[Special:EditCount/Blue Ninjakoopa|E]]|[[User talk:Blue Ninjakoopa|T]]|[[Special:Contributions/Blue Ninjakoopa|C]]]</sup> 03:08, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
Blue Ninja, look for SHIPPIDDGESUXBIGCOCK on Youtube. [[User:SSBC|SSBC]] ([[User talk:SSBC|talk]]) 03:58, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
I'm never big on saying that a character is treated "unfairly" over two years after the game came out.  I really haven't seen the level of play out of Ganon that I have out of Meta Kinght, Snake, etc...  The simple fact of the matter is that Ganon doesn't win tourneys.  And that's not because people don't play him, or at least that they don't try him.  Do you honestly think that people that play this game competitively (i.e. Mew2King) just randomly picked their character.  Mew2King especially would try every character to figure out which one is the best.  And he doesn't do this lightly; he's made some amazingly detailed calculations of every character's attributes in Melee, and he's equally specific about Brawl.  And if there really is something about a character that could make them break-out, go try in in competition.  Look at Ken with Marth and Wobbles with the Ice Climbers.  People didn't think they were all that good until people proved it on the tournament field.  Then people took notice, and revised their opinions of those characters.  If you honestly think Ganon can do this, show it.  People will notice if you beat top pros; they don't when you make a forum and say you could be good if you practiced.  [[User:Clarinet Hawk|Clarinet Hawk]] <small>([[User talk:Clarinet Hawk|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Clarinet Hawk|contributions]])</small> 00:51, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
:Wow, you have such a bleak opinion on the Smash World. I honestly don't care of Mew2King. No. Not one bit. My idol players are Zhoaten and Ally. And against those people, who have devoted much of their teenage-adult life to Brawl... I just don't think I'd be able to compete with that. I don't play too much Brawl due to school, life, etc. and just don't have the seasoning of a true Brawler. [[User:SSBC|SSBC]] ([[User talk:SSBC|talk]]) 03:04, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
::So you admit that you have no experience with high level play and don't really know how Ganon would fare? zzz. <span style="font-family:vivaldi; font-size:12pt">[[User:Shadowcrest|<span style="color:#4682b4">Shadowcrest</span>]]</span> 03:57, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
I've seen Zhoaten (best Ganondorf to this day) who was able to almost defeat Ally, so actually, I do know of competitive Ganondorf capabilities. I just don't have tourney-happy abilities yet. [[User:SSBC|SSBC]] ([[User talk:SSBC|talk]]) 03:58, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
At least Ganondorf can abuse the fact that people underrate him and play against him in the wrong way (like for example approach him instead of camping him, allowing him to hit. And when he lands a hit, he can rack damage very quickly (although unfortunately his moves also stale pretty quickly), [[Flame Choke]] itself is an amazing tech-chasing move.

But about recovery, SSBC, I have to disagree. His recovery is terrible. Aerial Flame Choke is easily intercepted due 19 frames start-up, and Up b has 14 frames start-up and no type of Super Armor or anything, only grab Armor which hasn't too much horizontal range and no priority at all right above him, though the uppercut has surprisingly good range and has pretty good priority. He also has both slow air movement and fast fall. It may be equal or even worse than Link's recovery due although both are around equal horizontally and Ganondorf clearly has a better vertical recovery, the lack of projectiles and lack of a disjointed up b makes him easier to edge-guard. Also, the [[Landing lag glitch]] is also very annoying due his lack of air speed with also lack of good moves to reliably keep the opponent away from the punishment of that lag. [[User:Firewario|Firewario]] ([[User talk:Firewario|talk]]) 10:21, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
I said I've seen unpredictable recovery from him, Fire, I wasn't saying he was good at recovery. His aerial logic has never let me down, actually, by the way. And what landing lag glitch? I don't know of such a thing. [[User:SSBC|SSBC]] ([[User talk:SSBC|talk]]) 03:58, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

HI, im a noob at smash wiki. (mattbell888) but dude I totally agree with you. Ike, Link, Ganon and a whole bunch of low tier guys are my favorites. and you know what? I KICK ASS WITH THEM! some of my friends think they are good at brawl and they only use MK, snake, Falco and Diddy. I recently got into brawl and thoroghly pwned. But yeah, Ganon is basically a TANK. Feel free to flame me, I need more experience on forums with trolls and noob haters, because everyone was a noob at one point.
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 I said I've seen unpredictable recovery from him, Fire, I wasn't saying he was good at recovery. His aerial logic has never let me down, actually, by the way. And what landing lag glitch? I don't know of such a thing. [[User:SSBC|SSBC]] ([[User talk:SSBC|talk]]) 03:58, March 28, 2010 (UTC)
-HI, im a noob at smash wiki. (mattbell888) but dude I totally agree with you. Ike, Link, Ganon and a whole bunch of low tier guys are my favorites. and you know what? I KICK ASS WITH THEM! some of my friends think they are good at brawl and they only use MK, snake, Falco and Diddy. I recently got into brawl and thoroghly pwned. But yeah, Ganon is basically a TANK. Feel free to flame me, I need more experience on forums with trolls and noob haters, because everyone was a noob at one point. <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:mattbell888|mattbell888]] ([[User talk:mattbell888|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/mattbell888|contribs]]) 23:32, October 1, 2009 (UTC)</small>
+HI, im a noob at smash wiki. (mattbell888) but dude I totally agree with you. Ike, Link, Ganon and a whole bunch of low tier guys are my favorites. and you know what? I KICK ASS WITH THEM! some of my friends think they are good at brawl and they only use MK, snake, Falco and Diddy. I recently got into brawl and thoroghly pwned. But yeah, Ganon is basically a TANK. Feel free to flame me, I need more experience on forums with trolls and noob haters, because everyone was a noob at one point.
-::Welcome to Smash Wiki. One of our least important but most overlooked rules is the necessity of signing your posts. Please, after you finish typing a well-thought out and positive contribution, conclude it with 4 tildes, which will automatically sign your posts.
-::As to your comment, you beating your friends is great, but it doesn't make Ganon a good character. You beating professional brawlers at tournments with the SBR rules, that might make Ganon a good character. [[User:Semicolon|Semicolon]] ([[User talk:Semicolon|talk]]) 01:10, April 24, 2010 (UTC)
-i agree,ganondorf is treated rather poorly in brawl,everything on his page really just seems like a big insult,its pretty much always saying something negative,even when its talking about his posotive features its usually followed by another negative,i personaly find ganondorf to be a pretty good character,im not gonna lie and say hes the best,he cetainly has his hindrances but they tend to be exagerated,like it says his stailing is one of the worst in the game and can make it difficult for him to kill,that is flat out false,even at their stalest ganondorfs entire moveset has more killing power than the majority of light and middleweights killing moves at their freshest,it also says hes easy to gimp,which is also false since ganondorf can just use up air on any gimping attempts and still easily recover,and there are few moves that outprioritize ganondorfs aerials if any at all,it also says he has one of the worst recoveries,also false,not only does it have equal range to marths but it sweetspots the ledge so he either grabs it or just lands on the stage and its less punishable than marths recovery on the landing and it also has a disjointed hitbox at the end of the fist,and it says hes easily camped,the only character in the game who can easily camp him is falco,who can camp anyone,and hes actually one of the best edgeguarders since his down air is very quick and very powerfull,but regardless all his aerials can be used to edgeguard and because of their high knockback tend to be extremely dangerous that close to the blast line,combine that with the fact that he can still do his triple dair combo from melee that results in about 60% damage and hes definitely an alright character,not to mention you always get a free second hit if flame choke is landed,most of his negative aspects are shared by the majority of heavy weights,and his attacks are faster than ikes and have almost as much destructive power,now im no tournament pro or anything but i am able to beat two LV9 meta knights(friendly fire turned off and no items)with ganondorf,so yeah,he may not be the best but hes definitely not the worst...then again i dont believe in a best or worst character in general[[User:Gig|Gig]] ([[User talk:Gig|talk]]) 05:48, 10 October 2010 (EDT)
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