Editing Forum:Create "instant KO/death" article

{{Forumheader|Proposals}}<!-- Please put your content under this line.  Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes ~~~~ -->
{{proposal}}
Currently, [[Instant KO]] redirects to [[One-hit KO]]. Terminology aside, the article includes several examples of true "instant KOs" that clearly do not belong in the article, which is otherwise essentially a list of particularly powerful launching attacks. The instant KO examples, however, are not launching attacks, and some of them aren't attacks at all. They are things like [[Danger Zone|Danger Zones]], [[Obliviate]], and getting [[crush|crushed]]. This list is not complete even for Smash 4 instances, and Ultimate looks to be getting several more, seen with Final Smashes, Mimimkyu, KOs in stamina mode until the last stock, and more.

Given that these instant death effects are not the same as mere powerful OHKO moves, and given that Ultimate will be significantly expanding their number of unique instances, I propose creating a separate article for them with the title '''Instant KO''' and removing the redirect. <s>If that terminology is contentious, I'm fine with using another name and keeping the redirect, but Instant KO is ideal in my opinion.</s>

The article will initially include at least the following (with links to existing articles where appropriate, rather than extensive details):

* Danger Zones
* Orne's Obliviate effect
* Crushing on Pirate Ship (Brawl only) and Midgar
* Crushing in SSE
* Infernal Climax
* [https://youtu.be/ZP1cmXGpii8?t=73 Ridley's Final Smash]
* Triforce of Wisdom
* Mimikyu
* Death's Scythe
* Ultimate Chimera (Ultimate only)
* Stamina KOs in Ultimate

I'll gladly add all this if approved. [[User:SuperFalconBros|SuperFalconBros]] ([[User talk:SuperFalconBros|talk]]) 17:50, 29 August 2018 (EDT)
:Are you leaving out [[Triforce of Wisdom]] and [[Infernal Climax]]? [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidan'''</span>]], [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''the Rurouni'''</span>]] 17:53, 29 August 2018 (EDT)
::I had Infernal Climax on there, but forgot Triforce of Wisdom. Thanks! [[User:SuperFalconBros|SuperFalconBros]] ([[User talk:SuperFalconBros|talk]]) 17:54, 29 August 2018 (EDT)
:So basically, this refers to the ones that destroy the opponent on the spot rather than sending them off the blast lines, right? This seems like the most appropriate way to go about it, so I support the split. However, I do think that it needs a different name than "Instant KO" to more easily distinguish the two, as many people use it as a synonym for an OHKO. Maybe we could get rid of the distinction with [[Obliviate]] and go with that as a catch-all? [[User:DryKirby64|DryKirby64]] ([[User talk:DryKirby64|talk]]) 18:07, 29 August 2018 (EDT)
::I do want to point out that numerous articles already use "instantly KO'd" to refer to the destruction effect ([[Infernal Climax]], [[Obliviate]], [[Danger Zone]], [[crush]], {{SSBU|Ridley}}, the list goes on). I think it's a very natural way of phrasing it, and I think disambiguation text at the top of the new article ("for attacks powerful enough to KO in one hit, see One-hit KO") would suffice. [[User:SuperFalconBros|SuperFalconBros]] ([[User talk:SuperFalconBros|talk]]) 18:33, 29 August 2018 (EDT)
:::I support the split, but I feel like we should also perhaps bring up that "one-hit KO" moves fail to KO in [[cave of life|caves of life]] (including [[no KO]] stages), while instant KOs bypass the blast lines and do work in caves of life. --[[User:Luigifan18|Luigifan18]] ([[User talk:Luigifan18|talk]]) 19:51, 31 August 2018 (EDT)
:I created the proposed article in my namespace [[User:SuperFalconBros/Instant KO|here]]. Adding a few images is on my to-do list. [[User:SuperFalconBros|SuperFalconBros]] ([[User talk:SuperFalconBros|talk]]) 20:04, 31 August 2018 (EDT)
::I have added images and consider the article in a good state for adding. I added the deletion tag to the Instant KO redirect to hopefully get the ball rolling here. [[User:SuperFalconBros|SuperFalconBros]] ([[User talk:SuperFalconBros|talk]]) 14:42, 2 September 2018 (EDT)
:After reading through numerous articles that use "instant KO" to refer to the instant death effect, and seeing that [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Instant_KO|no articles]] actually use the Instant KO redirect to refer to OHKO, I'd like to more strongly suggest that the new article assume the "Instant KO" moniker and the old redirect be removed. Even the Nintendo Directs say "instantly KO" when talking about Danger Zones and Death's Scythe. [[User:SuperFalconBros|SuperFalconBros]] ([[User talk:SuperFalconBros|talk]]) 23:07, 2 September 2018 (EDT)
:I think this makes sense as proposed. [[User:Sniffnoy|Sniffnoy]] ([[User talk:Sniffnoy|talk]]) 14:57, 3 September 2018 (EDT)
:Although I support the creation of the article, I oppose placing it over the Instant KO page for the reasons discussed on that talk page. ''[[User:Trainer Alex|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Trainer Alex|<span style="color: red;">'''Jigglypuff trainer'''</span>]]'' 14:46, 4 September 2018 (EDT)
::I definitely want a page for this type of KO, and every Nintendo Direct I've seen describes it as being "instantly KO'd". [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 18:17, 4 September 2018 (EDT)
:Bumping for opinions. Reminder that the proposed article is finished [[User:SuperFalconBros/Instant KO|here]]. [[User:SuperFalconBros|SuperFalconBros]] ([[User talk:SuperFalconBros|talk]]) 09:26, 7 September 2018 (EDT)
:: I support. I’ll probably be mostly ignored, but instant KO’s are a very different thing from OHKOs. Instant KO makes me think actual instant KO whereas OHKO makes me think of an attack that can KO normally at zero percent. I have never heard OHKO’s called instant KOs, only OHKO’s and one-hit-KOs. That’s just my two cents. [[Special:Contributions/72.133.91.93|72.133.91.93]] 09:44, 7 September 2018 (EDT)Blueflame105
'''Dead Neutral'''. While I can see a need for this kind of info, Melee is still known to use 'Instant KO'. Plus, I STILL think this would be better off on the OHKO page, segregated in its own little h2 section down near the bottom somewhere. [[User:Black Vulpine|<span style="color: black;">'''Black Vulpine'''</span>]] of the [[User talk:Black Vulpine|'''Furry Nation''']]. [[Special:Contributions/Black Vulpine|<span style="color: #CC5500">'''Furries make the internets go! :3'''</span>]] 18:44, 7 September 2018 (EDT)
:Can't say I agree with the latter suggestion, since the OHKO page is a mildly interesting fan-made list, while instant KO is a true game mechanic. [[User:SuperFalconBros|SuperFalconBros]] ([[User talk:SuperFalconBros|talk]]) 20:43, 7 September 2018 (EDT)
::Also, couldn't we just add a note or trivia fact that explains that OHKOs were called instant KOs in Melee, then leave it at that while we make this new page? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 00:26, 8 September 2018 (EDT)
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@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 {{Forumheader|Proposals}}<!-- Please put your content under this line.  Be sure to sign your edits with four tildes ~~~~ -->
-{{proposal|y|Proposed article has been created over the '''Instant KO''' redirect.}}
+{{proposal}}
 Currently, [[Instant KO]] redirects to [[One-hit KO]]. Terminology aside, the article includes several examples of true "instant KOs" that clearly do not belong in the article, which is otherwise essentially a list of particularly powerful launching attacks. The instant KO examples, however, are not launching attacks, and some of them aren't attacks at all. They are things like [[Danger Zone|Danger Zones]], [[Obliviate]], and getting [[crush|crushed]]. This list is not complete even for Smash 4 instances, and Ultimate looks to be getting several more, seen with Final Smashes, Mimimkyu, KOs in stamina mode until the last stock, and more.
@@ Line 30: / Line 29: @@
 :After reading through numerous articles that use "instant KO" to refer to the instant death effect, and seeing that [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Instant_KO|no articles]] actually use the Instant KO redirect to refer to OHKO, I'd like to more strongly suggest that the new article assume the "Instant KO" moniker and the old redirect be removed. Even the Nintendo Directs say "instantly KO" when talking about Danger Zones and Death's Scythe. [[User:SuperFalconBros|SuperFalconBros]] ([[User talk:SuperFalconBros|talk]]) 23:07, 2 September 2018 (EDT)
 :I think this makes sense as proposed. [[User:Sniffnoy|Sniffnoy]] ([[User talk:Sniffnoy|talk]]) 14:57, 3 September 2018 (EDT)
-:: Clarification: That's a '''support''', to be clear. [[User:Sniffnoy|Sniffnoy]] ([[User talk:Sniffnoy|talk]]) 22:26, 19 September 2018 (EDT)
 :Although I support the creation of the article, I oppose placing it over the Instant KO page for the reasons discussed on that talk page. ''[[User:Trainer Alex|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Trainer Alex|<span style="color: red;">'''Jigglypuff trainer'''</span>]]'' 14:46, 4 September 2018 (EDT)
-::'''HIGHLY SUPPORT''' AI definitely want a page for this type of KO, and every Nintendo Direct I've seen describes it as being "instantly KO'd". [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 18:17, 4 September 2018 (EDT)
+::I definitely want a page for this type of KO, and every Nintendo Direct I've seen describes it as being "instantly KO'd". [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 18:17, 4 September 2018 (EDT)
 :Bumping for opinions. Reminder that the proposed article is finished [[User:SuperFalconBros/Instant KO|here]]. [[User:SuperFalconBros|SuperFalconBros]] ([[User talk:SuperFalconBros|talk]]) 09:26, 7 September 2018 (EDT)
 :: I support. I’ll probably be mostly ignored, but instant KO’s are a very different thing from OHKOs. Instant KO makes me think actual instant KO whereas OHKO makes me think of an attack that can KO normally at zero percent. I have never heard OHKO’s called instant KOs, only OHKO’s and one-hit-KOs. That’s just my two cents. [[Special:Contributions/72.133.91.93|72.133.91.93]] 09:44, 7 September 2018 (EDT)Blueflame105
@@ Line 38: / Line 36: @@
 :Can't say I agree with the latter suggestion, since the OHKO page is a mildly interesting fan-made list, while instant KO is a true game mechanic. [[User:SuperFalconBros|SuperFalconBros]] ([[User talk:SuperFalconBros|talk]]) 20:43, 7 September 2018 (EDT)
 ::Also, couldn't we just add a note or trivia fact that explains that OHKOs were called instant KOs in Melee, then leave it at that while we make this new page? [[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 00:26, 8 September 2018 (EDT)
-'''Support'''. I'd say the distinction between powerful attacks that KO in one hit and instances where the player are KO'd instantly to be pretty notable. I personally think the opposing reason of "Melee already calls OHKOs Instant KOs" is a weak one. If we move on with the idea, we can easily create a note that says something along the lines of "Not to be confused with ''Melee's'' [[One-hit KO]]s, which are also referred to as Instant KOs.". <small>—Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Pokebub|Pokebub]] ([[User talk:Pokebub|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Pokebub|contribs]]) 02:07, 10 September 2018 (EDT)</small>
-'''Strong OPPOSE'''. I don't see the point of dividing and separating these type of KOs. I have read it, yes, but I don't think it's enough to warrant another article. Instant KO is still a OHKO, so to add another article doesn't make sense to me. [[User:Michele|Michele]] ([[User talk:Michele|talk]])
-:Your opposition is clearly borne of ignorance. Again, "Instant KO" is an actual game mechanic where a character is KO'd without actually touching a [[blast line]], while "One-hit KO" just means that the attack has ridiculously high base [[knockback]] to the point where it can KO regardless of damage percentage unless access to the blast lines is completely cut off, but still requires the victim to cross a blast line to be KO'd. --[[User:Luigifan18|Luigifan18]] ([[User talk:Luigifan18|talk]]) 14:51, 16 September 2018 (EDT)
-::Also, your statement "<I>Instant KO is still a OHKO" is false</i>, because it only KOs if the damage meter is high enough, meaning it doesn't KO at 0%. In otherwords: OHKO and instant KO are <B>2 completely different things. </b> Have I cleared things up? [[User:Unowninator|¿¡Unowninator?!]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 18:39, 16 September 2018 (EDT)
-:::So, you're telling me these two terms are different. Being crushed is a instant kill, while a attack with very high knockback to KO at zero is a OHKO. Fine, I suppose that's acceptable. We need consent first from a administrator. But, I don't know - and I doubt a administrator will ever accept that proposal. [[User:Michele|Michele]] ([[User talk:Michele|talk]])
-::::No such rule exists. If a consensus can be reached without the input of an administrator then the change can go ahead. See [[SW:ADMIN#Administrators_are_not_kings|administrators are not kings]]. ''[[User:Trainer Alex|<span style="color: blue;">'''Alex'''</span>]] the [[User talk:Trainer Alex|<span style="color: red;">'''Jigglypuff trainer'''</span>]]'' 08:10, 17 September 2018 (EDT)
-:I think the split is in line with the wiki's goal of documentation of the game, so I support it on the condition that sufficient disambiguation of the terms is provided in the content of the page. &ndash; [[User:Emmett|<span style="color:#000000">Emmett</span>]] 12:12, 21 September 2018 (EDT)
-'''Support''', could definitely see this as its own article. [[User:Awesomelink234|<span style="font-size:10pt;background:#00FF20;border:outset #083 2px;padding:1px 3px;color:#050DF7">Awesomelink234, the Super Cool Sonic Fan</span>]] [[User talk:Awesomelink234|Leave a message if needed]] 20:35, 24 September 2018 (EDT)
-===Support===
-*[[User:Sniffnoy|Sniffnoy]]
-*[[User:Luigifan18|Luigifan18]]
-*[[User:Trainer Alex|Trainer Alex]]{{rollover|*|Opposes naming it Instant KO}}
-*[[User:Unowninator|Unowninator]]
-*[[Special:Contributions/72.133.91.93|72.133.91.93]]
-*[[User:Pokebub|Pokebub]]
-*[[User:DryKirby64|DryKirby64]]
-*[[User:Emmett|Emmett]]
-*[[User:Awesomelink234|Awesomelink234]]
-*[[User:TimmaTurtle|TimmaTurtle]]
-===Oppose===
-*[[User:Michele|Michele]]
-===Neutral===
-*[[User:Black Vulpine|Black Vulpine]]
-Did I miss anyone? [[User:Unowninator|¿¡Unowninator?!]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 23:15, 19 September 2018 (EDT)
-:You forgot [[User:Pokebub|Pokebub]]'s support.
-:You could also add [[User:Black Vulpine|Black Vulpine]]'s neutral vote, just in case. — [[File:NokiiSig.png|link=]] [[User:Nokii|'''{{color|#8090d8|Nokii}}''']] (''[[User_talk:Nokii|T]]·[[Special:Contributions/Nokii|C]]·[[Special:Log/Nokii|L]]'') 23:45, 19 September 2018 (EDT)
-Thanks. [[User:Unowninator|¿¡Unowninator?!]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 11:21, 20 September 2018 (EDT)
-:I gave my support as well, but I know it's easily missed because it's in a block of text. I'll add myself in real quick. (I'm fine with naming it Instant KO, since the synonym isn't as common as I thought it was.) [[User:DryKirby64|DryKirby64]] ([[User talk:DryKirby64|talk]]) 20:21, 20 September 2018 (EDT)
-Do I count? [[User:SuperFalconBros|SuperFalconBros]] ([[User talk:SuperFalconBros|talk]]) 09:12, 21 September 2018 (EDT)
-:Good question. I don't know. [[User:Unowninator|¿¡Unowninator?!]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 10:59, 21 September 2018 (EDT)
-Bumping once again. Not including myself, there are 8 votes in support (of which 1 opposes the name Instant KO) versus 1 oppose outright, and 1 neutral. Would like to hear if there are any other thoughts on this. [[User:SuperFalconBros|SuperFalconBros]] ([[User talk:SuperFalconBros|talk]]) 19:12, 24 September 2018 (EDT)
-:So, how many supports do we need before we can make the change? [[User:Unowninator|¿¡Unowninator?!]] ([[User talk:Unowninator|talk]]) 11:23, 27 September 2018 (EDT)
-::It's been a month since I opened this. With 10 (or 11) votes of support, of which only 1 disagrees with the proposed name, and 1 oppose vote, I think we have a consensus. [[User:SuperFalconBros|SuperFalconBros]] ([[User talk:SuperFalconBros|talk]]) 12:54, 29 September 2018 (EDT)
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