Talk:Giant Kirby

i <3 (er... love) Kirby!!

I have loved Kirby since the very first Smash Bros... so much that i created a site about him-- [kirbyclub.cjb.net The Kirby Club](visit that site and join with your google account if you wish). But I have never seen or played Melee (although im looking for an emulator as im looking round this site =) ) so how big is kirby? someone reply please !!

~~~~kirbylover4000 (i am yet to be a user...)~~~~

Why exactly...

...do we have a page on him (and slightly less notably, Giant Bowser and Giant DK) but not Giant Charizard? It seems like a hole in the giant-versions-of-characters boss collection. ---Preceding unsigned comment added by you. Or maybe Nutta. 21:46, 25 September 2015 (EDT)

Adventure Mode > 1 Event, I assume. Miles (talk) 23:28, 25 September 2015 (EDT)

Deletion

I agree with the deletion of the Giant Kirby, Giant Bowser, Kirby team, and Yoshi team articles; they are not any distinct entities with their own special properties, and so these articles basically just boil down to "Smash 64/Melee had you fight them in their 1P mode/Adventure mode, and then future Smash games sometimes had you fight them among a bunch of other giant and team character possibilities". The relevant information is entirely covered in the relevant single-player mode articles. Omega Tyrant 08:49, July 1, 2023 (EDT)

Is the general policy not "once notable, always notable"? Toomai Glittershine The Spectrum 09:59, July 1, 2023 (EDT)

How does that apply here? This isn't a matter of "was Giant Kirby ever notable", it's "there's nothing more special about Giant Kirby than the plethora of other giant characters you fight in Smash single-player", and the scant of relevant information about him is contained within the associated single-player modes articles. Omega Tyrant 10:34, July 1, 2023 (EDT)

This is perhaps not the best example I admit. Giant Kirby certainly has the least importance compared to Giant Bowser (same deal really), the Kirby team (unique mechanic that other teams don't have), and the Yoshi Team (shaped the lore of Yoshi in not only Smash Bros. but the Mario series itself). But this certainly is a question of historical notability. At the time we had little/no way of knowing whether there was a mechanical difference between SSB64's Giant DK and SSBM's Giant Kirby. In the context of the time, there was every reason to believe they had equal importance, and the wiki editors behaved accordingly. Toomai Glittershine The Labbie 12:12, July 1, 2023 (EDT)

In the context of the time, while the datamining tools people have today weren't around in 2002, what was definitely obvious was that the Super Mushroom didn't exist in 64, so either way Giant DK was of more importance because he was the only one in 64 who could have the giant modifier (especially so nowadays because we know that he's coded to be a separate character). I'll admit I was hesitant to tag the Yoshi/Kirby teams for deletion, given that the Yoshi team uses costumes the playable Yoshi couldn't use in 64, and the Kirby Team does have a unique mechanic other teams don't (though to be fair that's because the character is Kirby, who has the unique copy ability mechanic that can't apply to anybody else), and I completely forgot about Giant Bowser (which, as both of you mentioned, is the same deal as Giant Kirby). Unnamed anon (talk) 13:50, July 1, 2023 (EDT)

"At the time we had little/no way of knowing whether there was a mechanical difference between SSB64's Giant DK and SSBM's Giant Kirby. In the context of the time, there was every reason to believe they had equal importance, and the wiki editors behaved accordingly."

People in the past being ignorant about a subject isn't "historical notability" and so does not justify keeping the article. Under that sort of logic, we never would have deleted Toadbanjoconker's article because he was once incorrectly believed to be the "discoverer" of wavedashing, or really you could extend that as a reason to never delete any old article because people in the past once thought its subject should have a page, which would obviously get silly with all the dumb things people made articles, categories, templates, etc. for when the wiki's standards were less codified (e.g. articles for trophy-only characters, articles for non-Smash consoles, the Brazilian tier list article, the home stage article, the female smashers category, the netplay smashers category, the metal characters galleries, the competitive navigation templates, etc etc). I'll also note this from SW:SMASHER on the topic of "once notable, always notable":

"Keep in mind, however, that the wiki documents smasher articles on a historical basis. So if a smasher was found to have satisfied our notability guidelines at some point-in-time, they will be considered notable enough to have a smasher article here regardless of how irrelevant they end up becoming in the future, barring an update to the notability guidelines or new information/arguments being brought up that finds the original notability-approval dubious."

The bolded part is what's relevant here, "once notable, always notable" doesn't mean the original notability approval is infallible and can never be questioned. So even if you were to argue Giant Kirby, Yoshi team, etc, were once deemed notable enough for their own articles, the counterargument is simply they never were notable in the first place, and the articles would have been shot down then if we had our current standards and knowledge we have now. Omega Tyrant 13:52, July 1, 2023 (EDT)

I'm not going to debate much over Giant Kirby/Giant Bowser, I do agree that the justification to keep them is flimsy. I'm on the fence about the Kirby team; unlike Giant Kirby/Bowser, the Kirby team isn't just "the Team stage with Kirby", and the same gimmick appears in multiple games. The Yoshi Team has historical importance for the evolution of non-Smash Bros. content, and thus will stay. Toomai Glittershine The Resolute 14:29, July 1, 2023 (EDT)

"the Kirby team isn't just "the Team stage with Kirby"

The Kirbies starting with copy abilities is really no different than the many other single-player battles where someone gets something that they normally wouldn't, like the permanent invisible Fox/Falco on Event 23: Slippy's Invention, the player starting with a perpetual final smash in Event 2: Landmaster Ignition, all the metal and giant characters in other modes, and all the things that spirit battles do.

"The Yoshi Team has historical importance for the evolution of non-Smash Bros. content, and thus will stay."

Aside from you not being able to unilaterally say "this will stay", this claim is just wrong; several different-colored Yoshis were already depicted since his inception, and was expanded farther upon in Yoshi's Island and Yoshi's Story, both of which precedes Smash 64. "Yoshi team" in Smash did not invent the concept of there being several different colored Yoshis. Omega Tyrant 14:51, July 1, 2023 (EDT)