Editing Forum:Smash Remix content Part 2

{{proposal}}
Seeing as how the [[Forum:Smash Remix content|prior proposal]] passed with option 3 (Mod page and character icons), I figured I'd start another proposal for further coverage on ''[[Smash Remix]]''. 

This proposal if passed would '''give Remix a status similar to Project M/+''' and allow the creation of: 
*independent character pages 
*tournament pages for Smash Remix-exclusive tournamnents, series, or circuits
*Smash Remix ranking articles
*Smash Remix result tables on player pages
*articles of notable Smash Remix-exclusive players (admittedly not that many).
*a Smash Remix article icon
*Smash Remix majors being listed on the news template

For anyone who might not be aware, results of Smash Remix tournaments are already documented on articles in which events for it are held alongside Smash 64.

The mod was released in June 2019 and since then has seen notable use alongside Smash 64 tournaments. Most Remix brackets tend to nearly mirror the same amount of entrants as the regular 64 bracket. Active scenes have popped up in just about every major Smash 64 region apart from Japan. There have even been a good amount of netplay tournaments as well.

The official Smash Remix team has begun a [https://www.smashremix.net/ Smash Remix Tour] that intends to essentially act as the game's North American ranking system. A list of tournaments currently included in the tour can be found [https://www.smashremix.net/competitions here]. A list of some notable events prior to the announcement of the Tour can be found [[Forum:Smash Remix content#Comments|here]]. One thing to note might be that Remix has not been officially present at multi-game majors such as Low Tide City or Super Smash Con, however, this seems to be a result of the organizers not being interested in hosting said events whether it be due to the nature of modding itself or lack of resources. (Project M/+ has also been absent)

Some people might argue that the game hasn't eclipsed Smash 64 the same way Project M had previously done with Brawl, however, I'd argue that's not necessarily the point of the modification. Unlike PM/+, Smash Remix keeps the original 64 characters unchanged and continues to keep the same game mechanics and features (besides any that any that the new characters might have). Smash Remix is like a side dish that complements the main feast (Smash 64).

Although I don't believe this is that relevant: For comparison's sake, Project M was released in 2011 and the wiki began supporting content for it in [[Forum:The Project M debate|2013]]. [[User:SenorMexicano|<span style="color:#850FFA; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px green">'''Señor'''</span> <span style="color:#850FFA;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px green">'''Mexicano'''</span>]] ''[[User talk:SenorMexicano|<span style="color:lightpurple;text-shadow:0px 0px 2px lightgreen">(talk)</span>]]'' 19:30, June 18, 2022 (EDT)

==Support==
#As per proposal. I don't really see any harm being done from allowing further Remix content to be documented considering how big the mod and it's community has become. [[User:SenorMexicano|<span style="color:#850FFA; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px green">'''Señor'''</span> <span style="color:#850FFA;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px green">'''Mexicano'''</span>]] ''[[User talk:SenorMexicano|<span style="color:lightpurple;text-shadow:0px 0px 2px lightgreen">(talk)</span>]]'' 19:30, June 18, 2022 (EDT)
#Smash Remix is just as popular as the original, and the wiki coverage should do it justice.--[[User:Meester Tweester|Meester Tweester]] ([[User talk:Meester Tweester|talk]]) 19:45, June 18, 2022 (EDT)
#Smash Remix can only grow further beyond at this point. The mod is promising and popular because it adds brand new extra content to the game instead of changing original stuffs plus there's a dedicated community, netplay or offline. Further documenting Smash Remix can only bring more benefit than harm. [[File:Grand Dad.png|23x20px]] [[User:NaughtyPigMario|<span style="color: red;">'''NPM'''</span>]]  [[User talk:NaughtyPigMario|''<span style="color: blue;">Morr!?</span>'']] [[File:NaughtyPigBoi.jpg|23x20px]] 02:00, December 1, 2022 (EST)
#Smash Remix is a mod in the league of PM in its prime content-wise, there is very little reason to not engage in coverage of it. Now is the perfect time. --[[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]][[User:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Plague'''</span>]][[User talk:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #e68;">''' von Karma'''</span>]][[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]] 15:21, January 23, 2023 (EST)
#Smash Remix has really been growing with each consecutive update and as others mentioned, has its own dedicated community in a similar vein to Project M. I'd say that documenting would help expand the wiki to other big mods. [[User:Diddy Kongstar|<span style="font-size:10pt;background:#28282B;border:solid FF0000 5px;border-radius: 4px;padding:1px 3px;color:#FF0000">Diddy Kongstar</span>]] 15:54, April 17, 2023 (EDT)
#I think Smash Remix has gained sufficient enough traction, and so this proposal has my approval. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[File: TyranitarMS.png ]] 21:57, April 17, 2023 (EDT)
#Hell yeah. This really doesn't need any explanation, it's a must. [[User:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="skyblue">MH</font>''']][[User talk:MHStarCraft|'''<font color="blue">StarCraft</font>''']] [[File:Mega Man X SNES sprite.png|19px]] 22:07, April 17, 2023 (EDT)
#Smash Remix has been played by many communities I know and it has the same amount of respect as P+ and even Smash 64. It deserves such coverage as one of the most important mods and fangames today. That way I could also edit a lot of articles in relation to the Venezuelan and Chilean tournaments that are constantly making tournaments of Smash Remix. --[[User:Tacho99|Tacho99]] ([[User talk:T@cho|talk]]) 22:10, April 17, 2023 (EDT)
#I'm all for this. It's grown to be just as popular as vanilla 64, it deserves to have more documentation on the wiki. [[File:Toad.png|20px]] '''[[User:Ultimate Toad|<font color="#0BF">Ultimate Toad,</font>]] [[User talk:Ultimate Toad|<font color="blue">the Toad Warrior.</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ultimate Toad|<font color="#7B5BEE">(I'm the best!)</font>]]''' 22:27, April 17, 2023 (EDT)
#For what it's worth, the Smash 64 community has never been that big/had much exposure aside from a couple of large tournaments such as Smash Con. The fact that Smash Remix often matches the size of Smash 64 entrants in tournaments and has top 64 players in attendance shows how popular the game is within the community, and in my opinion that's really enough for it to get full coverage. [[User:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia;color: black;">Cookies</span>]][[File:CnC Signature.png|20px]][[User talk:Cookies and Creme|<span style="font-family: Georgia; color: black;">Creme</span>]] 22:49, April 17, 2023 (EDT)
#I have slight concern for "opening up the floodgates", in a sense, but I do simultaneously feel that Project M already opened the floodgates. I'm fine with covering the really popular ones, especially ones that add lots of new content and build on what made the original game fun (yes, I have my fingers crossed that Akaneia reaches this point as well). [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: cyan;">'''Aidan'''</span>]] [[User talk:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: pink;">'''the Springing Gamer'''</span>]] 00:57, April 18, 2023 (EDT)
#At this point, there's a lot of work that has been put into Smash Remix where I think it deserves to get a bit of spotlight on SmashWiki. I will admit that I just think the mod is such a dope idea with great execution. I also think in comparison to the Melee Wolf and Charizard mods, there are way more new characters in Smash Remix where there's a beefy amount of content that can be given pages on SmashWiki, without it being out of place/stubs. [[User:PowerShield03|PowerShield03]] ([[User talk:PowerShield03|talk]]) 20:38, May 10, 2023 (EDT)
#It's getting more and more popular which can be a benefit if more content from the mod is added to Smash Wiki. [[File:ThegameandwatchIcon2.png|20px]] [[User:Thegameandwatch|<span style=" color: Green;">'''Thegameandwatch'''</span>]] [[File:Thegameandwatch signature icon.png|20px]] [[User talk:Thegameandwatch|''<span style="color: blue;">The Nerd </span>'']] 14:31, June 8, 2023 (EDT)
#With precedent set by Project M and the sustained and growing popularity of Remix compared to the original I don't see why this shouldn't pass. [[User:Levii|Levii]] [[User talk:Levii|(talk)]] 18:50, June 30, 2023 (EDT)
#I can see why people would view this addition as redundant as Smash Remix in its current state isn't as influential within the community as Project M, but I see more good than harm from this proposal, so I'd say this should pass. [[User:LaughingElfMan|LaughingElfMan]] ([[User talk:LaughingElfMan|talk]]) 19:41, June 30, 2023 (EDT)
#Not much else to say that hasn't already been mentioned above and in SM's response to Toomai. '''[[User:Voqéo|<span style="background:#000; color:white; padding:2px 6px;font-size:12px;">Voqéo</span>]][[User talk:Voqéo|<span style="background:#e70012; color:white; padding:2px 4px;font-size:12px;">T</span>]]''' 19:46, June 30, 2023 (EDT)
#Sounds like a plan. Although after this I would suggest that we try to come up with some more rigid guidelines for mod representation in the future. Sincerely, '''[[User:Ender R. Musk|<span style="color:#cc00fa">Ender</span>]] [[User talk:Ender R. Musk|<span style="color:olive">REAL (NOT CLICKBAIT)</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Ender R. Musk|<span style="color: #012061">Musk</span>]]'''. 15:42, July 16, 2023 (EDT)

==Oppose==
#The main reason I only kinda grudgingly accepted PM was that it got actual coverage from mainstream sources (e.g. IGN). I don't think Smash Remix has reached that point. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[File:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Frivolous 22:16, April 17, 2023 (EDT)
#:I clarified this on the Discord, so I'll do the same here: There may be several articles on various sites of the form "hey this mod is cool you should check it out". This is not what I'm looking for. At its peak, PM had major gaming sites hosting guides and walkthroughs for it as if it were its own independent release. That's the sort of notoriety I think a mod needs to even try to deserve this status. [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[File:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Keymaster 07:35, April 18, 2023 (EDT)
#::I think this line of reasoning is fairly outdated considering that meaningful guide/tutorial culture has largely shifted away using "major gaming websites", especially for competitive games. Most talk of guides or tutorials are largely exclusive to dedicated Discord servers or YouTube channels. That's not even considering the fact that gaming websites in general have seen a huge decline in recent years. In fact, a lot of guides you find on Google tend to be AI generated. With all these things considered, Smash Remix has definitely received a notable amount of mainstream coverage within the modern day gaming landscape.<br>
#::Your reasoning also ignores the fact that Remix has become nearly as much a part of the competitive 64 scene as the vanilla game. In my opinion, this holds much more importance over "mainstream" coverage. [[User:SenorMexicano|<span style="color:#850FFA; text-shadow: 0px 0px 3px green">'''Señor'''</span> <span style="color:#850FFA;text-shadow:0px 0px 3px green">'''Mexicano'''</span>]] ''[[User talk:SenorMexicano|<span style="color:lightpurple;text-shadow:0px 0px 2px lightgreen">(talk)</span>]]'' 18:36, June 30, 2023 (EDT)
#:::I am looking for a definitive, objective barometer of notability that this mod passes and all others don't, which can be used for future such discussions in the same way that "got picked up by major game websites" was defined to be PM's. I'm not seeing that here - just "it's big enough". [[User:Toomai|Toomai]] [[User talk:Toomai|Glittershine]] [[File:Toomai.png|20px|link=User:Toomai/Bin|???]] The Rainbow 11:47, July 1, 2023 (EDT)
#'''Oppose''' as per Toomai. [[User:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="dodgerblue"><span style="font-family:Verdana;">'''Miles''']] <font color="silver">([[User talk:Miles of SmashWiki|<font color="silver">talk]])</font></font></span></font> 22:41, April 17, 2023 (EDT)

==Comments==
Looking through the Smash 64 community, I've noticed that at least a sizable portion community members almost see Remix as an outright replacement to the original. Hell, they still use Remix for "vanilla" events where they'll only allow the vanilla cast, solely because of the QoL enhancements it brings. It seems that the only thing stopping it from actually being a replacement is that larger events are terrified of running modded Smash events due to what happened to P+ (and for all I know, they may still be run under the hood anyway). If we consider each Smash title as its own "thing", then I see even less reason to not cover Remix further than before. --[[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]][[User:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #e68;">'''Plague'''</span>]][[User talk:Plague von Karma|<span style="color: #e68;">''' von Karma'''</span>]][[File:PlagueSigImage.png|20px]] 02:40, May 6, 2023 (EDT)

Bumping for a last call, '''comment on this now if you haven't already''', this will be decided on within the week and I don't want to hear any complaints about the result of this proposal later on from people who never "voted" on it during the whole year they had to do so. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[File: TyranitarMS.png ]] 15:31, July 16, 2023 (EDT)
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	{{proposal\|passed\|2=This proposal has been up for over a year and the Discord channel has been pinged about it several times over the past several months, consensus is widely in support of this and dissenting voices have had more than enough time to make their voices heard. <span style="font-family:Edwardian Script ITC; font-size:12pt">[[User:Omega Tyrant\|<span style="color:forestgreen">Omega</span>]] [[User talk:Omega Tyrant\|<span style="color:forestgreen">Tyrant</span>]]</span> [[File: TyranitarMS.png ]] 07:47, July 22, 2023 (EDT)}}		{{proposal}}
	Seeing as how the [[Forum:Smash Remix content\|prior proposal]] passed with option 3 (Mod page and character icons), I figured I'd start another proposal for further coverage on ''[[Smash Remix]]''.		Seeing as how the [[Forum:Smash Remix content\|prior proposal]] passed with option 3 (Mod page and character icons), I figured I'd start another proposal for further coverage on ''[[Smash Remix]]''.
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